"Dave Cornwell" wrote in message
...

No more than the lid on private jobs many of whom have seen their salaries
rocket or they don't pay their full quota of tax if they are tradesmen or
self employed. Not an option as a PAYE public sector worker. Not only are
public sector workers underpaid they are undervalued. However it seems to
be the lot in life of a Scientist even in the private and utility sector -
they are desperately underpaid for the studying they have had to do and
the level of expertise required to do their job. Somewhere on at least par
with a Lawyer or Accountant but they will only get a fraction of their
salary.

When I worked at the MetO College training forecasters I was told by the
Chief Instructor that your reward will not come in this life, but the next
.... I can wait :-)

Will
--
http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
---------------------------------------------

Eskimo Will wrote:

"Dave Cornwell" wrote in message
...

No more than the lid on private jobs many of whom have seen their
salaries rocket or they don't pay their full quota of tax if they are
tradesmen or self employed. Not an option as a PAYE public sector
worker. Not only are public sector workers underpaid they are
undervalued. However it seems to be the lot in life of a Scientist
even in the private and utility sector - they are desperately
underpaid for the studying they have had to do and the level of
expertise required to do their job. Somewhere on at least par with a
Lawyer or Accountant but they will only get a fraction of their salary.

When I worked at the MetO College training forecasters I was told by the
Chief Instructor that your reward will not come in this life, but the
next ... I can wait :-)

Will
---------------------------------------------------
He probably meant your pension. It is true to some extent although I
paid 6% of my salary all my working life which few who moan about theirs
have.:-)

On Thursday, October 30, 2014 12:13:25 PM UTC, wrote:
Well the MetO staff have just heard that a derisory pay offer is about to be
imposed.
The offer in no way addresses pay inequalities between sexes, does nothing
to reward loyal, good and hard working staff, does nothing to motivate staff
and does nothing to stem the cut to living standards to some of the best
scientists in the country.

Over the past 10 years Minister after Minister have visited the Met Office
and told staff that they are the "jewel in the UK crown of science", but
where is the reward? A pat on the back and feck all in the pay packet. Well
enough is enough, and the staff are now being balloted on industrial action.
This does not mean an all out strike but probably action short of a strike.
Like mass walkouts, working to rule, refusing to do favours, no applause for
visiting politicians etc etc.

Of course the battle is against the Tory government coalition and not MetO
management. But, .... MetO management have done naff all to help the
situation and now chickens are coming home to roost. The main trade Union in
the Met Office is Prospect and I am still a member of that Union. There are
also a few PCS members too. So I give my support to all staff in their
fight.

This action is likely to be long and protracted and may get nasty if there
is nothing from government. Whether it will affect weather services I'm not
sure. Probably not on the face of it, but you can rest assured that staff
morale there remains at rock bottom and that has implications for quality in
my opinion. There are signs now that because of poor pay good graduates are
leaving and recruiting is getting harder, well Mr Government what will
happen to your jewels then?

Good luck, stick it up 'em where it hurts!

Will
--
http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
---------------------------------------------

Not a little dig at your previous employers, or anything here, is it Will.

Let it go. You don't work for them any more......

"General" wrote in message
...
"Eskimo Will" wrote in message ...

snip
=================

Is this special pleading on behalf of UKMO (in which case I don't think
the case has been made) or do you think everyone in the country should get
a pay rise? Do you have the keys to the money-making machine? I certainly
don't. With a public debt that's potentially going to be absolutely
ruinous for future generations, surely any sane person can see the
rationale for having to keep the lid on public expenditure?

Trouble is, everybody thinks they are a *special case*, don't they?
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl
Snow videos:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QvmL4UWBmHFMKWiwYm_gg

On Thursday, 30 October 2014 15:21:55 UTC, Dave Cornwell wrote:
General wrote:
"Eskimo Will" wrote in message ...

snip
=================

Is this special pleading on behalf of UKMO (in which case I don't think
the case has been made) or do you think everyone in the country should
get a pay rise? Do you have the keys to the money-making machine? I
certainly don't. With a public debt that's potentially going to be
absolutely ruinous for future generations, surely any sane person can
see the rationale for having to keep the lid on public expenditure?
-----------------------------------------------------
No more than the lid on private jobs many of whom have seen their
salaries rocket or they don't pay their full quota of tax if they are
tradesmen or self employed. Not an option as a PAYE public sector
worker. Not only are public sector workers underpaid they are
undervalued. However it seems to be the lot in life of a Scientist even
in the private and utility sector - they are desperately underpaid for
the studying they have had to do and the level of expertise required to
do their job. Somewhere on at least par with a Lawyer or Accountant but
they will only get a fraction of their salary.
Dave

I'm with you Dave , the private sector workers have been squeezed until those Jaffa seeds start to scream. I've worked in the private sector since 1990, actually its not really private as its government funded no matter what , but I digress as we haven't received a pay rise in eight years, the pensions offered are private and are no where near the ludicrously paid final salary scheme figure that are paid no matter what. I mean look at Will didn't he retire at 60 whilst most will have to retire at 67 and even then their private pensions will be about a fifth of state and local authority workers. I believe they are a bloody luck lot of so and so's and one of the last bastions of well paid, well looked after workers in this country.

I wouldn't be surprised if certain agencies weren't looking to streamline down UKMO and out source most of the work to private agencies.

Larry will now look into the futu I see a major government inquiry into the met office and all the things that its succession of leaders have been told to do will be used against them and used as an excuse to use that terrible term "not fit for purpose". You marl my words UKMO cannot continue in its present form and the OTT warnings, the BBQ summers and the Global warming hysterics will be used against them as they out source the work.

Lets face it the general public won't give a toss.


But the question of them going on strike is very concerning as does that mean there will be no weather when they withdraw barometers ?

On Thursday, 30 October 2014 16:43:55 UTC, Dave Cornwell wrote:
Eskimo Will wrote:

"Dave Cornwell" wrote in message
...

No more than the lid on private jobs many of whom have seen their
salaries rocket or they don't pay their full quota of tax if they are
tradesmen or self employed. Not an option as a PAYE public sector
worker. Not only are public sector workers underpaid they are
undervalued. However it seems to be the lot in life of a Scientist
even in the private and utility sector - they are desperately
underpaid for the studying they have had to do and the level of
expertise required to do their job. Somewhere on at least par with a
Lawyer or Accountant but they will only get a fraction of their salary.

When I worked at the MetO College training forecasters I was told by the
Chief Instructor that your reward will not come in this life, but the
next ... I can wait :-)

Will
---------------------------------------------------
He probably meant your pension. It is true to some extent although I
paid 6% of my salary all my working life which few who moan about theirs
have.:-)


Yes Dave private sector pensions 6% you matched by 6% the employer whereas Superann 16% by the state.

On Thursday, 30 October 2014 17:49:49 UTC, Dawlish wrote:
On Thursday, October 30, 2014 12:13:25 PM UTC, wrote:
Well the MetO staff have just heard that a derisory pay offer is about to be
imposed.
The offer in no way addresses pay inequalities between sexes, does nothing
to reward loyal, good and hard working staff, does nothing to motivate staff
and does nothing to stem the cut to living standards to some of the best
scientists in the country.

Over the past 10 years Minister after Minister have visited the Met Office
and told staff that they are the "jewel in the UK crown of science", but
where is the reward? A pat on the back and feck all in the pay packet. Well
enough is enough, and the staff are now being balloted on industrial action.
This does not mean an all out strike but probably action short of a strike.
Like mass walkouts, working to rule, refusing to do favours, no applause for
visiting politicians etc etc.

Of course the battle is against the Tory government coalition and not MetO
management. But, .... MetO management have done naff all to help the
situation and now chickens are coming home to roost. The main trade Union in
the Met Office is Prospect and I am still a member of that Union. There are
also a few PCS members too. So I give my support to all staff in their
fight.

This action is likely to be long and protracted and may get nasty if there
is nothing from government. Whether it will affect weather services I'm not
sure. Probably not on the face of it, but you can rest assured that staff
morale there remains at rock bottom and that has implications for quality in
my opinion. There are signs now that because of poor pay good graduates are
leaving and recruiting is getting harder, well Mr Government what will
happen to your jewels then?

Good luck, stick it up 'em where it hurts!

Will
--
http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
---------------------------------------------

Not a little dig at your previous employers, or anything here, is it Will.

Let it go. You don't work for them any more......

Will is posing as the 'flying pickets' at the moment.

On Thursday, 30 October 2014 14:58:51 UTC, wrote:
"Metman2012" wrote in message
...
On 30/10/2014 13:40, Eskimo Will wrote:

"Graham P Davis" wrote in message
news:20141030132558.501aca2f@home-1...
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 12:12:53 -0000
"Eskimo Will" wrote:

The offer in no way addresses pay inequalities between sexes

Not quite sure what you mean by this one, Will. The only pay inequality
I noticed when I first started work for the Met Office was that the
take-home pay of a man was lower than that of a woman of equal grade
and service. That was due to only the male workers paying for
widows-and-orphans benefits. However, that went away with pensions
reorganisation years later.

There was an exercise done, in 2011 I think, that looked at pay equality
and there are instances of womens and mens pay in the same grade/same
length of service being different (not necessarily women lower). Reasons
for this are complex and possibly stem in part from pay offered on
appointment. Pay inequality is not really a big issue in the MetO,
however, as it is an equal opportunities employer, but staff were
promised over 5 years ago that any unfair inequalities would be sorted..
They haven't been. In fact the pay system is now effectively broken (due
to government imposition) and things are getting worse not better.

Will
Wasn't there also the issue of women taking time off for children (x
years) and coming back to the same pay scale, but men who joined at the
same time had continued up the pay scale (spine) so were getting more than
the women?

Hi Malcolm, that was when we had a pay spine. As you know the idea of role
pay (which came in in 2008) was equal pay for equal work. The aim was for
staff to take circa 4 years (depending on role) to get to the full rate for
the job. But this was scuppered by the then Labour government deeming it as
unaffordable. I'm not kidding, I was in the Union Pay negotiating team at
that time when we thought we were really getting somewhere. But on the day
of the Treasury announcement of "unaffordable" - the HR (official side) pay
team were literally in tears. Months of hard work from both sides gone up in
smoke because of the bleedin Treasury. Now new staff *never* make the rate
for the job because their rises are severly restricted. They are kept on
lower pay despite being competent and doing good work. So in the same team
doing the same quality work one person's pay can be £1000s pounds less than
the other simply because one person has been employed longer (pre 2008).
That is wrong.

But hey, look on the bright side, we are paying off the deficit (or are we?
Seems as big as ever?) caused by greedy ignorant w.. er bankers.

Will
--
http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
---------------------------------------------

I think the big bad bankers jibe is overplayed. Banks have to lend money or they cannot pay their investors so in times where noting seems safe then the once tough rules to safe guard bad borrowing are lowered .

One of the main driving forces to the major long lived economic dip was the American mortgage companies having their arms twisted by Clinton to almsot lend money to anyone , which they did and the sytem lost trillions and still affects us all now

On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 16:44:17 +0000
Dave Cornwell wrote:

Eskimo Will wrote:

"Dave Cornwell" wrote in message
...

No more than the lid on private jobs many of whom have seen their
salaries rocket or they don't pay their full quota of tax if they
are tradesmen or self employed. Not an option as a PAYE public
sector worker. Not only are public sector workers underpaid they
are undervalued. However it seems to be the lot in life of a
Scientist even in the private and utility sector - they are
desperately underpaid for the studying they have had to do and the
level of expertise required to do their job. Somewhere on at least
par with a Lawyer or Accountant but they will only get a fraction
of their salary.

When I worked at the MetO College training forecasters I was told
by the Chief Instructor that your reward will not come in this
life, but the next ... I can wait :-)

Will
---------------------------------------------------
He probably meant your pension. It is true to some extent although I
paid 6% of my salary all my working life which few who moan about
theirs have.:-)

When I joined the Met Office, one of the first things I thought was
really stupid was that we had a so-called non-contributory pension.
Tory rags made out that this was actually the case whereas I soon found
out that, when pay comparisons with outside businesses were made in
order to fix our pay, 7% was deducted from the figure to account for
our "non-contributory" pension. By the time I retired, this had risen
to 10% and we also had a contributory portion of 3%. So, in the last
few years of my working life, I was contributing 13% of may salary in
one way or another towards my pension. That's not something you'll see
in the Mail, Express, etc.

I don't know why the union didn't push for a contributory pension in
order that we could be fairly compared with the private sector. Perhaps
I'm doing them a disservice and they did so but I never heard anything
about it.

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks. Mail: 'newsman' not 'newsboy'.
"Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they're open". -
Lord Dewar (1864-1930)

Lawrence Jenkins wrote:

I'm with you Dave , the private sector workers have been squeezed
until those Jaffa seeds start to scream. I've worked in the private
sector since 1990, actually its not really private as its government
funded no matter what , but I digress as we haven't received a pay
rise in eight years, the pensions offered are private and are no
where near the ludicrously paid final salary scheme figure that are
paid no matter what. I mean look at Will didn't he retire at 60
whilst most will have to retire at 67 and even then their private
pensions will be about a fifth of state and local authority workers.
I believe they are a bloody luck lot of so and so's and one of the
last bastions of well paid, well looked after workers in this
country.

Don't get Will started on pensions!

If public sector workers think that the private sector is some
kind of a 'land of milk and honey' regarding pay then they are
sadly mistaken. I work in the private sector and my last pay
rise barely kept pace with inflation.
Indeed, average pay increases are still running a little below
inflation, hence despite the 'recovery' manu people are still getting worse
off.



But the question of them going on strike is very concerning as does
that mean there will be no weather when they withdraw barometers ?

I reckon that there will be weather but it will be of a type which is
easy to maintain with minimum staffing levels. No complex low
pressure systems, perhaps we'll get a 'default' anticyclonic gloom
type on strike days?
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl
Snow videos:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QvmL4UWBmHFMKWiwYm_gg