"James Brown" wrote in message
...
I can't decide how to rate this Winter. Is it:

a) The once in a few decades type like 1947 or 1962 - but modified by the
GW climatic change - hence not so severe.

b) The continuance of a pendulum swing to a more colder UK Winter period,
such as the 80's e.g.

c) None of the above - just another unique scenario - but without
implications of GW or longer term Winter cooling.

I'm leaning towards a) but together with last year, I'm also drawn to b)

Any thoughts?

Much depends on the scientific criteria by which a winter is judged as well
as individual circumstances and perceptions. I've already summarised the
Epping 2009/10 winter and my comments can be seen on the website (link in
sig). The notable feature in this part of the world were the contrasts which
occurred over relatively short distances with much of the snowfall being
marginal and altitude dependent. However the very interesting and detailed
reports on USW from upland areas of NE England and Scotland as well as
information from friends and family in those areas showed that things were
quite different with much snow, persistent snow cover and low
temperatures-again with local contrasts. Having spent a lot of time on (on
not in!) the winter of 1946/47 in recent weeks I can see parallels between
events then and the last 2 winters i.e. dominance of low pressure
(particularly this winter), snowfall in many areas but again often marginal
at times in low lying areas of the south and a gradual northwards push of
milder conditions with the later snowfall events being further northwards
with large accumulations over the upland areas.
Now, in answer to your question James, I would go for choice (a). Even in
the 31 years I have been recording weather data in Epping there has been
progressive warming such that an increasing proportion of winter
precipitation at low levels is in the form of rain rather than snow despite
the charts suggesting conditions being conducive to snowfall. Perhaps we
will be seeing an upwards migration of snow lovers - or has it already
started?

All the best

--
George in Epping, West Essex (107m asl)
www.eppingweather.co.uk
www.winter1947.co.uk
COL 36055

"Jim Kewley" wrote in message
...
In message , Lawrence Jenkins
writes

Is 'straw man' the new buzz term just like anthropogenic global warming
once
was? please let me know as I'm so out of touch with fashion.



Ah the group idiot resurfaces. What's up is alt.rightwinglosers quiet?

Out of touch with fashion? You're just out of touch, full stop.
--


Jim

You are just 'touched' in the head I believe. All that IOM inbreeding I
would guess. How's your uncle has she got over that flu yet?

On Mar 13, 10:45*pm, James Brown
wrote:
I can't decide how to rate this Winter. Is it:

a) The once in a few decades type like 1947 or 1962 - but modified by
the GW climatic change - hence not so severe.

b) The continuance of a pendulum swing to a more colder UK Winter
period, such as the 80's e.g.

c) None of the above - just another unique scenario - but without
implications of GW or longer term Winter cooling.

I'm leaning towards a) but together with last year, I'm also drawn to b)

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
James
--
James Brown

I'd just say it was an unusually cold winter; nothing like 1962/3, or
1947, country wide and certainly not here on the south coast of Devon
and there are likely to be less UK winters like this last one than
there were in the last, because of a worldwide warming trend. 2 years
is nothing on which to base a trend.

However, if, over the next 10 years, cooler UK winters were actually
seen to be more common, due to a change in the winter position of the
polar vortex, perhaps, we would have to then reassess. I see a trend
towards cooler winters in the UK as being unlikely, but still
possible, for a while at least, even as the world continues to warm.
Of course the NAD could shut down and plunge us into Maine winters,
but that is extremely unlikely in our lifetimes.

PS Ignore dear Lawrence; he knows sometimes knows not what he types
and you really weren't a "plank" for asking the question! *))

In message , James Brown
writes
I can't decide how to rate this Winter. Is it:

a) The once in a few decades type like 1947 or 1962 - but modified by
the GW climatic change - hence not so severe.

b) The continuance of a pendulum swing to a more colder UK Winter
period, such as the 80's e.g.

c) None of the above - just another unique scenario - but without
implications of GW or longer term Winter cooling.

I'm leaning towards a) but together with last year, I'm also drawn to b)

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
James


Thanks for all your measured responses. I totally agree that I am
speaking from my preferred location of S. Wales, so am coloured by
long-term memories of this area, and acknowledge that folk particularly
in Scotland have had it very differently. Maybe it will move south next
year!

In my schooldays I remember vividly the 62/63 Winter, with the days at
or below freezing which preceded the snows. Also the drifts. Dad drove
us up into the Brecon Beacons in late March (I think) and the road to
the Storey Arms was between drifts still higher than the car.

In the 80's I was living 1000' up in the valleys and in several Winters
we had blizzards with temperatures in the minus 4C range. One year the
snow came up to the bedroom windows - which was a bit scary considering
I had hepatitis at the time (without knowing it!).

In the Winter of 62/63 here on the south coast of Wales, the roads in
and out of our town were completely blocked by drifts, and supplies had
to brought in by boat!

So that to put this Winter in context, all the snow has arrived here
with more borderline temperatures, though temperatures have subsequently
rivalled some of the previous low records.

The only other factor I might suggest is the pressure patterns, which
IMHO haven't 'quite' been right in the south for a real humdinger of a
Winter. North Sea lows, anticyclones not quite in the optimum position
have played a part.

But it is fair I think to ponder things now that there are one or two
daffs beginning to show.

Cheers and thanks folks

James

--
James Brown

"Will Hand" wrote in message
...



Same here in Manchester. Practically snowless but very cold. Had more snow
this year on Dartmoor than we got in Manchester in 1963. Different story
in Bolton I should think and certainly different in Derbyshire where
drifts were huge!

I don't know about 1963 but I've seen pictures of Bolton in the
winter of 1947 with roads being practically cut out of the snow and
makes the 11 inches on Jan 5th look like a mere dusting
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl

It's always a bad idea to base a winter on past memories, because I
would have said that the winter of 1978-79 was colder than this winter
here in South Devon!

But guess what, surprise, surprise when I checked the data for Exeter
Airport, available from 1973 http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Exeter...1979/38390.htm
if you understand the lingo & have time to download into Excel.

The average temperature for winter 1978-79 was +3.6c
The average temperature for winter 2009-10 was +3.4c

for the record

The average temperature for winter 1981-82 was +5.3c
The average temperature for winter 1984-85 was +4.1c
The average temperature for winter 1985-86 was +4.5c
The average temperature for winter 1986-87 was +4.8c

On Mar 14, 8:08*pm, Bonos Ego wrote:
It's always a bad idea to base a winter on past memories, because I
would have said that the winter of 1978-79 was colder than this winter
here in South Devon!



But guess what, surprise, surprise when I checked the data for Exeter
Airport, available from 1973http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Exeter_Airport/1979/38390.htm
if you understand the lingo & have time to download into Excel.

The average temperature for winter 1978-79 was +3.6c
The average temperature for winter 2009-10 was +3.4c

for the record

The average temperature for winter 1981-82 was +5.3c
The average temperature for winter 1984-85 was +4.1c
The average temperature for winter 1985-86 was +4.5c
The average temperature for winter 1986-87 was +4.8c

I would have said the same and that is a surprise! Thanks for taking
the time to do the stats.

This winter for me has been one of promised extremes which never
materialized (at least here in the SW), rather snowy and certainly cold
and often icy but not exceptional for Dartmoor. A lot of lowland/coastal
Devon folk will remember this winter more for the ice and cold rather than
the snow.

Same here in the North West Midlands Will!
Remembered more for the cold & ice rather than snow and wasn't even close to
the amazing winter of 1979, which carried on well into the Spring!
Spring 1979 is the 2nd coldest on record here (1960-2010) behind 1962 and
the 4th coldest since 1900!!
There have been a fair number of Winter's here since 1960 which although not
as cold have been much more snowy than 2010.
Although an excellent Winter for the internet years, it would struggle to
get into my top 10 since 1960.

Graham

"Bonos Ego" ...
It's always a bad idea to base a winter on past memories, because I
would have said that the winter of 1978-79 was colder than this
winter
here in South Devon!

But guess what, surprise, surprise when I checked the data for
Exeter
Airport, available from 1973
http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Exeter...1979/38390.htm


snip

.... I would be very wary of using that source to base such conclusions
as this upon. I have noted before in this ng that that site is
unreliable - I've just checked the Hurn data for February gone for
example, and whereas I can reconcile some of the data in their list
against my log (which I extract daily), for others there is no rhyme
or reason to the entries. The data jumps about - sometimes logging the
exact value, sometimes the value but slightly different to entered (by
0.1degC), sometimes to the nearest whole degC, and a selection (2
maxima, at least 5 minima) that bear no relation to the reported data.

I'm not challenging your conclusion - it's just that I wouldn't use
that site to support it!

Martin.




--
Martin Rowley
West Moors, East Dorset (UK): 17m (56ft) amsl
Lat: 50.82N Long: 01.88W
NGR: SU 082 023

In article ,
Martin Rowley writes:
"Bonos Ego" ...
It's always a bad idea to base a winter on past memories, because I
would have said that the winter of 1978-79 was colder than this
winter
here in South Devon!

But guess what, surprise, surprise when I checked the data for
Exeter
Airport, available from 1973
http://www.tutiempo.net/clima/Exeter...1979/38390.htm


snip

... I would be very wary of using that source to base such conclusions
as this upon. I have noted before in this ng that that site is
unreliable - I've just checked the Hurn data for February gone for
example, and whereas I can reconcile some of the data in their list
against my log (which I extract daily), for others there is no rhyme
or reason to the entries. The data jumps about - sometimes logging the
exact value, sometimes the value but slightly different to entered (by
0.1degC), sometimes to the nearest whole degC, and a selection (2
maxima, at least 5 minima) that bear no relation to the reported data.

I'm not challenging your conclusion - it's just that I wouldn't use
that site to support it!

Martin.


I'm confused. You seem to be talking about Hurn Airport, whereas Bonos
Ego was talking about Exeter Airport.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)