Dina put me on ignore if you find my hreads so painful.

The Sun

Over an hundred years ago “we” had no idea what powers the sun. Residual
heat, of the sort ascribed the earth’s core, was clearly out of the
question. Then Radio-Activity was discovered.

But the idea that the sun was full of radium or other radioactive
materials was scotched when research in the 1940’s showed that a nuclear
pile will go critical with very small amounts of radio-active material.
The idea that the sun is a nuclear fission device that splits atoms was
shelved. A decade later, the Hydrogen Bomb was invented.

In the meantime (and since before the history of man) the sun is
continuously putting out radiation is a very small window. Over 98% of
this window is infra-red spectrum through “visible” heat (light) to
ultra-violet. About 50% of the solar output is the rainbow of visible
radiation.

Not a bad guess for the gods of evolution was it, to place a nuclear
furnace so close to us; and it only puts out safe radiation? Wavelengths
exactly in between x-rays and microwaves. With a margin for error that
is neatly catered for by the earth’s natural production of ozone –which
is itself another miracle.

Alternatively, if you don’t believe in miracles:

No one has yet discerned the mechanism by which a solar system derives
its heat and light. The bible states, categorically, that the sun will
go on shining as brightly as ever; to time indefinite.

Whether “time indefinite” means forever or not, this term rules out
nuclear fusion or fission (as far as we understand it) and any other
physical / chemical “one way” reaction; just as previously it ruled out
glowing coals.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 03:15:14 +0000 (UTC), "Michael Mcneil"
wrote:

Dina put me on ignore if you find my hreads so painful.

The Sun

Over an hundred years ago “we” had no idea what powers the sun. Residual
heat, of the sort ascribed the earth’s core, was clearly out of the
question. Then Radio-Activity was discovered.

But the idea that the sun was full of radium or other radioactive
materials was scotched when research in the 1940’s showed that a nuclear
pile will go critical with very small amounts of radio-active material.
The idea that the sun is a nuclear fission device that splits atoms was
shelved. A decade later, the Hydrogen Bomb was invented.

In the meantime (and since before the history of man) the sun is
continuously putting out radiation is a very small window. Over 98% of
this window is infra-red spectrum through “visible” heat (light) to
ultra-violet. About 50% of the solar output is the rainbow of visible
radiation.

Not a bad guess for the gods of evolution was it, to place a nuclear
furnace so close to us; and it only puts out safe radiation?

You are an idiot. The sun puts out vast amounts of "unsafe" radiation.
The atmosphere protects us from most of it.


Wavelengths
exactly in between x-rays and microwaves. With a margin for error that
is neatly catered for by the earth’s natural production of ozone –which
is itself another miracle.

Alternatively, if you don’t believe in miracles:

No one has yet discerned the mechanism by which a solar system derives
its heat and light.

Bull****. Clueless, as well as bigoted. Goes hand in hand I suppose.


The bible states, categorically, that the sun will
go on shining as brightly as ever; to time indefinite.

Nope.


Whether “time indefinite” means forever or not, this term rules out
nuclear fusion or fission (as far as we understand it) and any other
physical / chemical “one way” reaction; just as previously it ruled out
glowing coals.


Got a better explanation than thermonuclear fusion?


Thought not. Go away till you have one.

--
Lt. General, Fanatic Legions.
Commander of Southern Hemisphere Forces.

Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm

Michael Mcneil wrote:

Dina put me on ignore if you find my hreads so painful.

The Sun

Over an hundred years ago ?we? had no idea what powers the sun. Residual
heat, of the sort ascribed the earth?s core, was clearly out of the
question. Then Radio-Activity was discovered.

But the idea that the sun was full of radium or other radioactive
materials was scotched when research in the 1940?s showed that a nuclear
pile will go critical with very small amounts of radio-active material.
The idea that the sun is a nuclear fission device that splits atoms was
shelved. A decade later, the Hydrogen Bomb was invented.

In the meantime (and since before the history of man) the sun is
continuously putting out radiation is a very small window. Over 98% of
this window is infra-red spectrum through ?visible? heat (light) to
ultra-violet. About 50% of the solar output is the rainbow of visible
radiation.

Not a bad guess for the gods of evolution was it, to place a nuclear
furnace so close to us; and it only puts out safe radiation? Wavelengths
exactly in between x-rays and microwaves. With a margin for error that
is neatly catered for by the earth?s natural production of ozone -which
is itself another miracle.

Alternatively, if you don?t believe in miracles:

No one has yet discerned the mechanism by which a solar system derives
its heat and light.


The Sun's primary energy source is the p-p chain whereby helium is
fused from hydrogen in the core of our sun. Density, pressure and
temperature profiles, solar neutrino (antineutrino) energies and total
radiated energy confirm the standard solar model.

Density, pressure an temperature profiles are measured by analysis
of the Sun's vibration modes, rates, etc.

The [once] Solar Neutrino Problem Has Been Closed
http://www.aip.org/enews/physnews/2002/split/586-1.html

HYSICS NEWS UPDATE
The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
Number 617 December 13, 2002 by Phillip F. Schewe, Ben Stein, and James
Riordon

PHYSICS STORIES OF 2002. The top two physics stories for the past 12
months were the total accounting of neutrinos from the sun by the Sudbury
Neutrino Observatory (SNO), thus solving the solar neutrino problem (Update
586; http://www.aip.org/enews/physnews/20...t/586-1.html); and the formation
and detection of antihydrogen atoms at CERN (Updates 605 and 611,
www.aip.org/enews/physnews/2002/split/605-1.html and
http://www.aip.org/enews/physnews/20...it/611-1.html). Other notable physics
developments for the year include stopping and storing light in a solid
(Update 571), the observation of phase-transition behavior in nuclei (572),
publication of some unsent letters by Niels Bohr to Werner Heisenberg (576),
interferometry with C-70 molecules (579), a dispute over "fusion" in
sonoluminescence (579, 599), most precise tests of special relativity (571,
590), sharper maps of the cosmic microwave background (591), "droplet" of
light (596), claims for element 118 retracted (597), verification of the
notion that the second law of thermodynamics can be violated on small
spacetime intervals (598), high precision measurements of CP violation in B
meson decays and in the g-2 factor of the muon (600), scandal at Lucent
(606), record high laboratory magnetic fields (614), polarization in the
cosmic microwave background detected (606), 2002 Nobel prize for physics
(608), noise can improve balance (612), and longest measured atomic lifetime
(616). All the above Update items can be retrieved from our archive at
www.aip.org/physnews/update.

REACTOR ANTI-NEUTRINO DISAPPEARANCE, measured by a detector in Japan,
supports the idea that neutrinos oscillate from one type to another and that
they possess mass. Nuclear reactors produce several things: heat,
electricity, spent fuel rods, and neutrinos. The neutrinos (or, to be more
exact, electron anti-neutrinos) are a result of fission reactions inside the
reactor core. But some of the electron antineutrinos, once they're underway
and moving through the Earth, manifest one of the weirdest phenomena in all
of physics, namely the ability to exist as a composite of several
sub-species. That is, what we call a neutrino is really several (perhaps
three) neutrinos in one. At any point along its trajectory the generic
neutrino might (if you were to capture it just then) appear as an electron
neutrino, but farther along it might look like a muon neutrino, in which
case it would elude detectors tuned to detect only electron nu's.
The Kamioka Liquid Scintillator Anti-Neutrino Detector (KamLAND) sets out
to sample this odd mode of being. The apparatus, basically a huge reservoir
of optically-active liquid viewed by numerous phototubes, looks for
interactions in which an incoming nu strikes a proton, creating in their
stead a trackable neutron-positron pair. KamLAND resides in an underground
lab beneath Toyama, Japan. It is a sort of telescope peering not at
galaxies in the sky; instead it stares through a block of terrestrial crust
looking for the neutrino warmth cast off by a constellation of 69 reactors
in Japan and Korea.

Taking into account the laws of physics governing the reactions in the
reactor cores, the known power ratings for the reactors, their aggregate
reactor-detector distances, and the duration of the experiment (145 days),
one would expect seeing 86 true events, whereas the actual number was 54.
The researchers conclude that the disappearance of events is due to neutrino
oscillation.

This result is not merely a confirmation of oscillation research carried
out with solar nu's at such detectors as Super Kamiokande in Japan and the
Sudbury Neutrino Observatory (SNO) in Canada (see Update 586,
http://www.aip.org/enews/physnews/20...it/586-1.html). For one thing
KamLAND studies anti-neutrinos rather than neutrinos. Furthermore, the
production of neutrinos in a reactor is much closer at hand and better
understood than is the case for the sun. The KamLAND finding also serves to
narrow the theoretical explanation of the neutrino's split personality.
(Eguchi et al., paper submitted to Physical Review Letters, text and
background information at:
http://hep.stanford.edu/neutrino/KamLAND/KamLAND.html)


The "solar neutrino problem" was solve a few years ago:
http://www.aip.org/enews/physnews/2002/split/586-1.html
http://www.aip.org/enews/physnews/2002/split/608-1.html

Note these papers by John N. Bahcall, Sarbani Basu, M. H. Pinsonneault:
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/astro-ph/9805135
http://pdg.lbl.gov/1998/solarnu_s005313.pdf
http://www.slac.stanford.edu/pubs/be...-3-bahcall.pdf

Also read:
http://www.sns.ias.edu/~jnb/Papers/P...ayhistory.html
http://www.fynu.ucl.ac.be/librairie/...ns/node26.html
http://www.mpi-hd.mpg.de/kirsten/gallex/detector.htm


Neutrino producing reactions adapted [by Lang]
from Bahcall (1989). The termination percentage is a fraction of terminations
of the proton-proton (pp) chain, 4p -- alpha + 2e+ + 2v_e, in which each
reaction occurs. Since in essentially all terminations at least one pp neutrino
is produced and in a few terminations one pp and one pep neutrino are created,
the total of pp and pep terminations exceeds 100%

Name Reaction % Termination Neutrino Energy, q
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pp p + p -- H² + e+ + v_e 100 q 0.420 MeV
pep p + e- + p -- H² + v_e 0.4 q = 1.442 MeV
hep He³ + p -- He4 + v_e 0.00002 q 18.773 MeV
Be7 Be7 + e- -- Li7 + v_e 15 q = 0.862 MeV 89.7%
q = 0.384 MeV 10.3%
B8 B8 -- Be7 + e+ + v_e 0.02 q 15 MeV


Calculated Solar neutrino fluxes at the Earth's Surface
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pp 6.0 x 10^10 cm^-2 s^-1
pep 0.014 x 10^10 cm^-2 s^-1
hep 8 x 10^3 cm^-2 s^-1
Be7 0.47 x 10^10 cm^-2 s^-1
B8 5.8 x 10^6 cm^-2 s^-1


Other relevant papers by John N. Bahcall, Sarbani Basu, M. H. Pinsonneault:
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/astro-ph/9805135
http://pdg.lbl.gov/1998/solarnu_s005313.pdf
http://www.slac.stanford.edu/pubs/be...-3-bahcall.pdf

And here is something fun you can do:
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~jjerrett/...proton/pp.html

More fun references:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...o/solarpp.html
http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/ar...+61627,00.html
http://www.eps.org/aps/meet/APR00/ba.../S5690002.html

"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:d57f52221100640eafaea869e8e344a5.45219@mygate .mailgate.org...

But the idea that the sun was full of radium or other radioactive
materials was scotched when research in the 1940's showed that a
nuclear

You seem to be ignorant of several key things.. people thought the sun
was full of iron, not radioactive materials until recently..

Please do more research before you post.

"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:d57f52221100640eafaea869e8e344a5.45219@mygate .mailgate.org...
Dina put me on ignore if you find my hreads so painful.

Of course not. It would be criminal to leave someone in such ignorance
without at least attempting to bring some light into their, possibly
self-imposed, darkness.

The Sun

SNIP
In the meantime (and since before the history of man) the sun is
continuously putting out radiation is a very small window. Over 98% of
this window is infra-red spectrum through "visible" heat (light) to
ultra-violet. About 50% of the solar output is the rainbow of visible
radiation.

Not a bad guess for the gods of evolution was it, to place a nuclear
furnace so close to us; and it only puts out safe radiation? Wavelengths
exactly in between x-rays and microwaves. With a margin for error that
is neatly catered for by the earth's natural production of ozone -which
is itself another miracle.

This seems a bit like the twaddle that comes from organisations like
"Answers in Genesis". While it may sound attractive to your obvious
fundamentalist leaning, it is inaccurate. Do you know what skin cancer is
and what the primary cause for it is? That primary cause is, you guessed it,
the sun. That kills your "safe" claim. Now have a look at this page
http://www.lofar.org/science/urd100/Solar_both.html and see what frequency
ranges these people are using to study the sun. As you will see, it is well
below the microwave range. So much for your miracle.

Just another minor point. If evolution is active, it stands to reason that
organisms that can survive in the environment here will survive and prosper.
Further it should come at no suprise that the eye is most sensitive to the
emissions put out by the sun, since that it what is available for it to
"see" with. Nor should it be a suprise that it reacts to those wavelegths
that can provide sufficent chemical activity to be detectable. What would be
a miracle is if we didn't use what nature provides.

Alternatively, if you don't believe in miracles:

Miracles are stuff of every religion, not just Christianity. Which god (or
gods) cause them, if they exist at all, is debatable, so the Bible cannot be
taken as an authorative source for scientific research. There is a multitude
of religious books offering conflicting accounts of how the world was
created and its ultimate fate, each devotee thinking that account is the
"truth".

SNIP

Whether "time indefinite" means forever or not, this term rules out
nuclear fusion or fission (as far as we understand it) and any other
physical / chemical "one way" reaction; just as previously it ruled out
glowing coals.

It may rule out these methods as you understand them, but that is not the
case for others. Given the expected life of the sun using current models, I
think the term "to time indefinate" fits pretty well for a species whose
longest lived human, even including the alleged Methulsa, is the minutest
fraction of the time it has been shining and is expected to shine.

Read this fundamentalism stuff if you wish. However, it has been my
experience that they have a strong disposition to misquote in an attempt to
bend the facts to their theories or to complely disregard what does not suit
their position. If you wish to be taken seriously, I suggest you read the
current research and then argue where it is wrong.

Mark

"Sam Wormley" wrote in message



The Sun's primary energy source is the p-p chain whereby helium is
fused from hydrogen in the core of our sun. Density, pressure and
temperature profiles, solar neutrino (antineutrino) energies and total
radiated energy confirm the standard solar model.

Density, pressure an temperature profiles are measured by analysis
of the Sun's vibration modes, rates, etc.

Thanks for the links. I can't wait until a fusion reaction is set up
that gives off more power than it costs. Let me know when they replicate
a fusion reaction that produces radiation that corresponds with the
sun's spetrum. That'd be a cool trick.

A biblical one too (Just thought I'd throw that one in for the dullards
in sci.geo.earthquakes. Oh I'm so good I laugh at myself!)


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"Mark Little" wrote in message


"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:d57f52221100640eafaea869e8e344a5.45219@mygate .mailgate.org...
Dina put me on ignore if you find my threads so painful.

Even bigger snip (or should I say "SNIP!")

I haven't read your vituperation through. It seems to jump to so many
conclusions about my private life that just aren't there. Why you should
concern yourself with that is beyond me. Still, each to his own, eh?

Concerning skin cancer: I believe that problem was covered early on in
Genesis. No doubt you have an aversion to research? In which case you
will just have to go with the crowd.

By Byee.


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Michael Mcneil wrote:
"Sam Wormley" wrote in message

The Sun's primary energy source is the p-p chain whereby helium is
fused from hydrogen in the core of our sun. Density, pressure and
temperature profiles, solar neutrino (antineutrino) energies and
total radiated energy confirm the standard solar model.

Thanks for the links. I can't wait until a fusion reaction is set up
that gives off more power than it costs. Let me know when they
replicate a fusion reaction that produces radiation that corresponds
with the sun's spetrum. That'd be a cool trick.

You think that our present inability to produce sustainable nuclear
fusion on Earth (largely a problem of containment) somehow casts doubt
on fusion as the mechanism which fuels the stars?

Just to make things absolutely clear: you believe that the Sun will
shine forever because it is shining out of God's arse? Did I get that
right?

--
Pyriform

"Michael Mcneil" wrote in message
news:8a17bb4227bff232e391e0dcdc92bf16.45219@mygate .mailgate.org...
"Sam Wormley" wrote in message



The Sun's primary energy source is the p-p chain whereby helium is
fused from hydrogen in the core of our sun. Density, pressure and
temperature profiles, solar neutrino (antineutrino) energies and total
radiated energy confirm the standard solar model.

Density, pressure an temperature profiles are measured by analysis
of the Sun's vibration modes, rates, etc.

Thanks for the links. I can't wait until a fusion reaction is set up
that gives off more power than it costs.

Ever heard of the Hydrogen Bomb? That is why it makes such a big BOOM!
(from Fox News)

"In a typical hydrogen bomb, the detonation of a fission bomb compresses and
heats a core of lithium deuteride, lithium combied with the hydrogen isotope
deuterium. The neutrons emitted by the fission reaction strike the lithium
atoms, creating atoms of another hydrogen isotope, tritium. The heat of the
fission reaction begins to fuse the tritium and deuterium atoms, creating
helium along with a large amount of neutrons.

The neutrons created by both the fission and fusion reactions strike a
specially shaped uranium casing, which begins to undergo a fission reaction
of its own, creating still more neutrons, accelerating the fusion reaction
until it all culminates in an enormous explosion."

All this effort creates a weapon that exceeds the power of the fission bomb
(otherwise there is no point in making all that effort), hence it liberates
more energy than it took to create the fusion. Your wait has been over for
many, many years.

I think you perhaps you mean " a *controlled* fusion reaction is set up that
gives off more power than it costs." This is more elusive.

In the case of the sun, the priming fission bomb is not required, since
gravitional collapse provides the energy required to start the reaction.

Let me know when they replicate
a fusion reaction that produces radiation that corresponds with the
sun's spetrum. That'd be a cool trick.

Is this before or after you find out that the Hydrogen Bomb works?

A biblical one too (Just thought I'd throw that one in for the dullards
in sci.geo.earthquakes. Oh I'm so good I laugh at myself!)

So you should. Everyone is laughing at you as well. ;-)

Mark

Michael Mcneil wrote:
"Sam Wormley" wrote in message



The Sun's primary energy source is the p-p chain whereby helium is
fused from hydrogen in the core of our sun. Density, pressure and
temperature profiles, solar neutrino (antineutrino) energies and
total radiated energy confirm the standard solar model.

Density, pressure an temperature profiles are measured by analysis
of the Sun's vibration modes, rates, etc.

Thanks for the links. I can't wait until a fusion reaction is set up
that gives off more power than it costs. Let me know when they
replicate a fusion reaction that produces radiation that corresponds
with the sun's spetrum. That'd be a cool trick.

Build the reactor big enough, cover it with 400,000 miles of hydrogen
and helium, and you would likely see your spectrum.

But we'll never fly, either. And rockets won't work in space because
there's nothing for them to push against.

A biblical one too (Just thought I'd throw that one in for the
dullards in sci.geo.earthquakes. Oh I'm so good I laugh at myself!)

Somebody has too...