On 06/05/12 12:09, Bjørn Sørheim wrote:
"Adam skrev i melding
...
On 05/05/12 21:35, Bjørn Sørheim wrote:
"Adam skrev i melding
...
On 05/05/12 12:06, Bjørn Sørheim wrote:
"Bjørn skrev i melding
...

"Bjørn skrev i melding
. ..

"Bjørn skrev i melding
...
At 2 o'clock in the night (local):
Quite cold now for a day in May.
Northernly draft. According to the radar and also watching
the sky in the west-northwest som shower clouds are approaching.
Probably soon starting to snow.
The full moon is shining in the south-southwest lying right down
onto
the
mountain skyline there.
There was been no snow yesterday (Friday).
Temperature was max 9.3 to min 0.7C. 1 mm precipitation.


The clouds went just west of here.
So no snow in May so far.
I'm actually hoping for it to be white outside
when I get up! So that's how it is when
you have become a weather nut...

Bjørn
62.2N 6.2 E

It is snowing (a bit) now - at noon. But no covering, and no
problems for cars here.
I was up at 8 o'clock and there was som few tiny areas of
snow lying so I haven't observed any white cover so far.
So I cannot really after my own terminology call this then
'snow in May.' Many a May have some snow flurries.
I would say 'snow in May' is an all white covering.observed.
But of course depending on your chosen terminology.
Temperature now is 2.1 C, max today sofar 6.9, min -1.0C.
At 8 o'clock it had not risen above 3.1C.


It have been snowing like hell here now at least the
last 15 minutes. It's almost all white here now.
The temperature went down to 1.4 C.
I also see on the net it has been big problems on the roads over
large areas of southern Norway today. Some accidents.

Bjørn


I am surprised to hear that it is causing big problems, I thought that
the
Norwegians would be well used to coping with snow.

But this snow is out of season when it falls in May.
So everyone is on snow tires. And the ploughs and equipment and
the system is tucked away for the summer half of the year.
So a snowfall in May creates big consternation also in Norway,
southern part at least.

Bjørn Sørheim


Perhaps the Norwegians can now understand why snow causes similar problems
in the UK, in the south at least. :-)


Yes, quite.
And actually each late autumn/start of winter when the first snow
falls, especially so in the larger urban areas in Norway, great
consternation
and chaos ensues. The forecasting of the first snow in any area is dismal
- that is my evaluation of how it is presented to the public, anyway.
So the larger part of the public have their summer tires on their cars
and total chaos is the result. It may surprise you, but norwegians
experience this every year, in urban areas at least. Later in the winter
there are hardly any problems as everyone now is in full 'winter mode'.

Concernig UK problems, what are the rules for use of tires
when the roads are slippery because of frost or snow?
One can actually use summer tires in such conditions in UK?
How large a part of UK car owners actually have special
winter tires?
In Norway it is compulsory with winter tires under such conditions,
any part of the year, and you will be fined if being discovered
by police without them. But of course some liberal adjusting
to real world practical situation in out of season snow-situation
is practised.

Bjørn Sørheim



Thanks for that interesting information.

I had always thought that during the Scandinavian autumn, there must be
a transition period where British type snow occurs i.e. light to
moderate falls occurring just above freezing that melt quickly, or thaw
then refreeze.

Few people have winter tyres in the UK and there generally isn't enough
snow in the southern (or indeed any lowland) counties for chains (studs
are prohibited). Where I work, at least one person has snow socks which
he used successfully during the 2009/10 winter and December 2010.

On 2012-05-06, Colin Youngs wrote:
"Bjørn Sørheim" schreef
: How large a part of UK car owners actually have special
: winter tires?

Probably very few.

I for one do. This winter past is the first year for the past 5 years (that's
how long I've been fitting winter tyres) when there wasn't any point. Most
years, I would be in some difficulty at times without them.

Adrian (12 miles ESE Aberystwyth, 260m/860ft asl, and up a steep narrow
hill with 6 miles of ungritted roads on the way to work!)

Bjørn Sørheim wrote:

How large a part of UK car owners actually have special
winter tires?

When I was living and working in Shetland I certainly fitted winter tyres
between October and April. In those days the tyres had metal studs which
could be replaced. They were OK on hard packed snow and ice but not much
use on fresh snow.
--
MCC

"MCC" skrev i melding
.. .
Bjørn Sørheim wrote:

How large a part of UK car owners actually have special
winter tires?

When I was living and working in Shetland I certainly fitted winter tyres
between October and April. In those days the tyres had metal studs which
could be replaced. They were OK on hard packed snow and ice but not much
use on fresh snow.
--
MCC

I have used only studded tires in all the years I have been driving, that is
about
35 years. Non studded winter tires have only been an issue in Norway for
maybe 15 years? One have to pay a special tax in the bigger cities to use
them there in Norway. But I detest them. It is proven that studded tires
gives a much better grip on icy roads.
And I once was not very far from being killed in a serious car accident
under such conditions, even with studded tires. So not using them in the
winter, when such conditions occur often is irresponsible and could be
fatal.

Bjørn.

On 06/05/12 22:55, Bjørn Sørheim wrote:
skrev i melding
.. .
Bjørn Sørheim wrote:

How large a part of UK car owners actually have special
winter tires?

When I was living and working in Shetland I certainly fitted winter tyres
between October and April. In those days the tyres had metal studs which
could be replaced. They were OK on hard packed snow and ice but not much
use on fresh snow.
--
MCC

I have used only studded tires in all the years I have been driving, that is
about
35 years. Non studded winter tires have only been an issue in Norway for
maybe 15 years? One have to pay a special tax in the bigger cities to use
them there in Norway. But I detest them. It is proven that studded tires
gives a much better grip on icy roads.
And I once was not very far from being killed in a serious car accident
under such conditions, even with studded tires. So not using them in the
winter, when such conditions occur often is irresponsible and could be
fatal.


Unless having studded tyres encourages you to drive faster/more
aggressively than you otherwise would.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_compensation

"Adam Lea" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/12 12:06, Bjørn Sørheim wrote:
"Bjørn skrev i melding
...

"Bjørn skrev i melding
. ..

"Bjørn skrev i melding
...
At 2 o'clock in the night (local):
Quite cold now for a day in May.
Northernly draft. According to the radar and also watching
the sky in the west-northwest som shower clouds are approaching.
Probably soon starting to snow.
The full moon is shining in the south-southwest lying right down onto
the
mountain skyline there.
There was been no snow yesterday (Friday).
Temperature was max 9.3 to min 0.7C. 1 mm precipitation.


The clouds went just west of here.
So no snow in May so far.
I'm actually hoping for it to be white outside
when I get up! So that's how it is when
you have become a weather nut...

Bjørn
62.2N 6.2 E

It is snowing (a bit) now - at noon. But no covering, and no
problems for cars here.
I was up at 8 o'clock and there was som few tiny areas of
snow lying so I haven't observed any white cover so far.
So I cannot really after my own terminology call this then
'snow in May.' Many a May have some snow flurries.
I would say 'snow in May' is an all white covering.observed.
But of course depending on your chosen terminology.
Temperature now is 2.1 C, max today sofar 6.9, min -1.0C.
At 8 o'clock it had not risen above 3.1C.


It have been snowing like hell here now at least the
last 15 minutes. It's almost all white here now.
The temperature went down to 1.4 C.
I also see on the net it has been big problems on the roads over
large areas of southern Norway today. Some accidents.

Bjørn


I am surprised to hear that it is causing big problems, I thought that the
Norwegians would be well used to coping with snow.


In my experience, the Norwegians cope very well in snow, with
their trains, buses and ships all running to time, although there are
exceptions, even in mid-winter.

Do you recall 21st February 2007, Bjørn, following a particularly
heavy fall of snow, when a train on the main Oslo to Bergen line
ploughed into deep snow between Myrdal and Finse, derailing two
of its four carriages which sat at an alarming angle on the hillside?
The line was closed for at least four days. In the vicinity of the
accident site, there are two tunnels built close to each other to
protect rail transport from avalanches but as luck would have it,
this snow slide found the gap.

How unusual is it for this railway line to become blocked?

Nigel

"Nigel Paice" skrev i melding
...

"Adam Lea" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/12 12:06, Bjørn Sørheim wrote:
"Bjørn skrev i melding
...

"Bjørn skrev i melding
. ..

"Bjørn skrev i melding
...
At 2 o'clock in the night (local):
Quite cold now for a day in May.
Northernly draft. According to the radar and also watching
the sky in the west-northwest som shower clouds are approaching.
Probably soon starting to snow.
The full moon is shining in the south-southwest lying right down onto
the
mountain skyline there.
There was been no snow yesterday (Friday).
Temperature was max 9.3 to min 0.7C. 1 mm precipitation.


The clouds went just west of here.
So no snow in May so far.
I'm actually hoping for it to be white outside
when I get up! So that's how it is when
you have become a weather nut...

Bjørn
62.2N 6.2 E

It is snowing (a bit) now - at noon. But no covering, and no
problems for cars here.
I was up at 8 o'clock and there was som few tiny areas of
snow lying so I haven't observed any white cover so far.
So I cannot really after my own terminology call this then
'snow in May.' Many a May have some snow flurries.
I would say 'snow in May' is an all white covering.observed.
But of course depending on your chosen terminology.
Temperature now is 2.1 C, max today sofar 6.9, min -1.0C.
At 8 o'clock it had not risen above 3.1C.


It have been snowing like hell here now at least the
last 15 minutes. It's almost all white here now.
The temperature went down to 1.4 C.
I also see on the net it has been big problems on the roads over
large areas of southern Norway today. Some accidents.

Bjørn


I am surprised to hear that it is causing big problems, I thought that
the Norwegians would be well used to coping with snow.


In my experience, the Norwegians cope very well in snow, with
their trains, buses and ships all running to time, although there are
exceptions, even in mid-winter.

Do you recall 21st February 2007, Bjørn, following a particularly
heavy fall of snow, when a train on the main Oslo to Bergen line
ploughed into deep snow between Myrdal and Finse, derailing two
of its four carriages which sat at an alarming angle on the hillside?
The line was closed for at least four days. In the vicinity of the
accident site, there are two tunnels built close to each other to
protect rail transport from avalanches but as luck would have it,
this snow slide found the gap.

How unusual is it for this railway line to become blocked?


Yes, I remember that very well. I have at least a couple of images
of that dramatic looking event on my computer. Strange CNN
didn't caught this story - or maybe they did?
And this line is _very_ often blocked of snow incidents, rock slides,
derailment, but luckily no lives are lost and little or no human injuries.

One major thing that happened this autumn, I think it was, was that
a long stretch of wooden snow protecting tunnels (norw: 'snøforbygging')
- which there are a lot of - caught fire because of welding on the line.
So yet another large incident.But of course such closings are just a few
days or maybe 1-2 weeks per year, I think.
Did you know that on the highest point - Finse 1222 - there is a hotel with
this name. And the area at Finse are often used by UK even US film
companies for shooting polar, winter scenes in movies. E.g. the second
Star Wars movie, I think it was, was shot there, part of it took
place on an ice-planet.

Bjørn

"Bjørn Sørheim" wrote in message
. ..

"Nigel Paice" skrev i melding
...

"Adam Lea" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/12 12:06, Bjørn Sørheim wrote:
"Bjørn skrev i melding
...

"Bjørn skrev i melding
. ..

"Bjørn skrev i melding
...
At 2 o'clock in the night (local):
Quite cold now for a day in May.
Northernly draft. According to the radar and also watching
the sky in the west-northwest som shower clouds are approaching.
Probably soon starting to snow.
The full moon is shining in the south-southwest lying right down
onto
the
mountain skyline there.
There was been no snow yesterday (Friday).
Temperature was max 9.3 to min 0.7C. 1 mm precipitation.


The clouds went just west of here.
So no snow in May so far.
I'm actually hoping for it to be white outside
when I get up! So that's how it is when
you have become a weather nut...

Bjørn
62.2N 6.2 E

It is snowing (a bit) now - at noon. But no covering, and no
problems for cars here.
I was up at 8 o'clock and there was som few tiny areas of
snow lying so I haven't observed any white cover so far.
So I cannot really after my own terminology call this then
'snow in May.' Many a May have some snow flurries.
I would say 'snow in May' is an all white covering.observed.
But of course depending on your chosen terminology.
Temperature now is 2.1 C, max today sofar 6.9, min -1.0C.
At 8 o'clock it had not risen above 3.1C.


It have been snowing like hell here now at least the
last 15 minutes. It's almost all white here now.
The temperature went down to 1.4 C.
I also see on the net it has been big problems on the roads over
large areas of southern Norway today. Some accidents.

Bjørn


I am surprised to hear that it is causing big problems, I thought that
the Norwegians would be well used to coping with snow.


In my experience, the Norwegians cope very well in snow, with
their trains, buses and ships all running to time, although there are
exceptions, even in mid-winter.

Do you recall 21st February 2007, Bjørn, following a particularly
heavy fall of snow, when a train on the main Oslo to Bergen line
ploughed into deep snow between Myrdal and Finse, derailing two
of its four carriages which sat at an alarming angle on the hillside?
The line was closed for at least four days. In the vicinity of the
accident site, there are two tunnels built close to each other to
protect rail transport from avalanches but as luck would have it,
this snow slide found the gap.

How unusual is it for this railway line to become blocked?


Yes, I remember that very well. I have at least a couple of images
of that dramatic looking event on my computer. Strange CNN
didn't caught this story - or maybe they did?
And this line is _very_ often blocked of snow incidents, rock slides,
derailment, but luckily no lives are lost and little or no human injuries.

One major thing that happened this autumn, I think it was, was that
a long stretch of wooden snow protecting tunnels (norw: 'snøforbygging')
- which there are a lot of - caught fire because of welding on the line.
So yet another large incident.But of course such closings are just a few
days or maybe 1-2 weeks per year, I think.
Did you know that on the highest point - Finse 1222 - there is a hotel
with
this name. And the area at Finse are often used by UK even US film
companies for shooting polar, winter scenes in movies. E.g. the second
Star Wars movie, I think it was, was shot there, part of it took
place on an ice-planet.

Bjørn

Thanks for the enlightening information, especially about Finse
being the film location of part of the original Star Wars trilogy.
I must have another look at it. I remember seeing the fancy
lettering of 'FINSE 1222' just to the right of the entrance to
the hotel which I believe refers to its height in metres above
sea level. On the day we were there, about 90% of the front
of the building was plastered in snow, only its name and the
porch easily discernible. Other, lesser dwellings nearby, were
practically buried in the stuff. This was on 20th Feb 2007, the
day before the derailment.

Given your comments on the frequency of incidents, perhaps
I should think twice before travelling on that line again! No,
it's worth the risk for the breathtaking scenery.

Nigel