I think it's worth defending some of the education authorities over the
last couple of days, since it seems to me that *some* of the complaints
are from people whose thoughts appear to come from 1977, not 2007...

When I first went to school (in 1980) the *vast* majority of pupils
walked, and most of those walked unaccompanied by their parents. My
family had one car, and my dad used it to go to work, so I got a lift
only very rarely (even in 1981-2!). In larger towns, fewer families had
cars at all, and almost everyone got a bus to school.

Many things have changed in a quarter of a century:

1) More parental choice over where to send their children
2) Many more families with multiple cars
3) The widespread closure of small schools (rural and urban)
4) Poorer public transport provision
5) Worries about the safety of children out alone

Put all those together, and you're left with a nation in which most
eight-year-olds get taken on the "school run" every single day. (Thus
making the roads even more unsafe for walking, but that's another
argument!) Many now live so far from their schools that they *couldn't*
walk there even if they wanted to.

The desirability or otherwise of this isn't really the point. What *is*
the point is that *given current lifestyle patterns* 10cm of snow is
inevitably going to cause *far* more difficulty in travelling to and from
school than it did thirty years ago, simply because it is much, much
harder to get to a snowy school under one's own steam than it was.

--
Bewdley, Worcs. ~90m asl.

Agreed, bit we remain the laughing stock of Canada and Norway for our
"inability" to cope with such small amounts of snow and these countries will
have undergone similar patterns of change in the last couple of decades.


"David Buttery" wrote in message
.145...
I think it's worth defending some of the education authorities over the
last couple of days, since it seems to me that *some* of the complaints
are from people whose thoughts appear to come from 1977, not 2007...

When I first went to school (in 1980) the *vast* majority of pupils
walked, and most of those walked unaccompanied by their parents. My
family had one car, and my dad used it to go to work, so I got a lift
only very rarely (even in 1981-2!). In larger towns, fewer families had
cars at all, and almost everyone got a bus to school.

Many things have changed in a quarter of a century:

1) More parental choice over where to send their children
2) Many more families with multiple cars
3) The widespread closure of small schools (rural and urban)
4) Poorer public transport provision
5) Worries about the safety of children out alone

Put all those together, and you're left with a nation in which most
eight-year-olds get taken on the "school run" every single day. (Thus
making the roads even more unsafe for walking, but that's another
argument!) Many now live so far from their schools that they *couldn't*
walk there even if they wanted to.

The desirability or otherwise of this isn't really the point. What *is*
the point is that *given current lifestyle patterns* 10cm of snow is
inevitably going to cause *far* more difficulty in travelling to and from
school than it did thirty years ago, simply because it is much, much
harder to get to a snowy school under one's own steam than it was.

--
Bewdley, Worcs. ~90m asl.

"fred" wrote in message
...
Agreed, bit we remain the laughing stock of Canada and Norway for our
"inability" to cope with such small amounts of snow and these countries
will have undergone similar patterns of change in the last couple of
decades.


but then again, I suspect that as a proportion of taxation we spend far
lesson coping with snow.

We probably don't get all of what we pay for, but I would hate to pay to
have us geared up to Norwegian levels of preparedness

Jim Webster

In article ,
fred writes:
Agreed, bit we remain the laughing stock of Canada and Norway for our
"inability" to cope with such small amounts of snow and these countries will
have undergone similar patterns of change in the last couple of decades.

But those countries get severe winters every winter, and so have to take
whatever measures are necessary to combat them. Those measures cost a
lot of money. It wouldn't make sense to spend so much in this country,
where severe conditions - at least in the lowland south - are a rarity.

The question of how much to spend is a difficult one. Are future winters
predominantly going to be like the ones we have become used to over the
last ten years or so, or might we get a reversion to the much higher
frequency of severe winters that we had between 1978 and 1987? Without a
reliable way of forecasting conditions for several years ahead, the best
that councils and the government can do is to assume that conditions in
the near future will be the similar to in the recent past, until there's
evidence to the contrary.
--
John Hall Weep not for little Leonie
Abducted by a French Marquis!
Though loss of honour was a wrench
Just think how it's improved her French. Harry Graham (1874-1936)

fred wrote:
Agreed, bit we remain the laughing stock of Canada and Norway for our
"inability" to cope with such small amounts of snow and these countries will
have undergone similar patterns of change in the last couple of decades.


I think you also have to consider the nature of the snow. I've had a few trips
to Canada in winter (Regina) and it was interesting to note their approach. With
the cold temps you can remove a foot of snow very quickly with a snow blower
from all the paths. Its well below freezing so no melting, paths remain dry and
clear and non slippery. Forget clearing roads, no problem driving on hard packed
snow.

I also was there when they had some "english" conditions - and guess what ?
gridlock on the roads. people weren't used to driving in slush where snow
chains couldn't be used.

Chris

"fred" wrote in message
...
Agreed, bit we remain the laughing stock of Canada and Norway for our
"inability" to cope with such small amounts of snow and these countries
will have undergone similar patterns of change in the last couple of
decades.


Well we can equally have a good laugh at others as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0mfpiCfjDM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOXkqrLwRFQ

I was in Norway last February and the one thing I noticed was that walking
on snow in subzero temperatures is very easy to do - it is not slippy. In
the UK, snow tends to fall when the temperature is near or slightly above
freezing so the snow immediatly starts thawiing into a slushy mess which
becomes like a skating rink, especially after the cars have compacted the
snow down hard.

Adam Lea wrote:


I was in Norway last February and the one thing I noticed was that walking
on snow in subzero temperatures is very easy to do - it is not slippy. In
the UK, snow tends to fall when the temperature is near or slightly above
freezing so the snow immediatly starts thawiing into a slushy mess which
becomes like a skating rink, especially after the cars have compacted the
snow down hard.

And on the rare occasions we get snow in sub-zero temperatures the idiot
councils chuck salt on the paths to turn dry snow into a slushy, slippy
mess.

Last Saturday was a different situation, cold but no snow or ice, so a local
shopping centre was smothered with salt and looked as if there had been a
light snowfall. Even undercover walkways were plastered with the stuff. The
large grains were like small marbles to walk on and some areas were wet due
to the salt soaking up moisture from the air. Pleased some kids as they had
been sliding on the stuff.

--
Graham P Davis
Bracknell, Berks., UK
Send e-mails to "newsman" as mails to "newsboy" are ignored.

"David Buttery" wrote in message
.145...
I think it's worth defending some of the education authorities over the
last couple of days, since it seems to me that *some* of the complaints
are from people whose thoughts appear to come from 1977, not 2007...

When I first went to school (in 1980) the *vast* majority of pupils
walked, and most of those walked unaccompanied by their parents. My
family had one car, and my dad used it to go to work, so I got a lift
only very rarely (even in 1981-2!). In larger towns, fewer families had
cars at all, and almost everyone got a bus to school.

Many things have changed in a quarter of a century:

1) More parental choice over where to send their children
2) Many more families with multiple cars
3) The widespread closure of small schools (rural and urban)
4) Poorer public transport provision
5) Worries about the safety of children out alone

Put all those together, and you're left with a nation in which most
eight-year-olds get taken on the "school run" every single day. (Thus
making the roads even more unsafe for walking, but that's another
argument!) Many now live so far from their schools that they *couldn't*
walk there even if they wanted to.

The desirability or otherwise of this isn't really the point. What *is*
the point is that *given current lifestyle patterns* 10cm of snow is
inevitably going to cause *far* more difficulty in travelling to and from
school than it did thirty years ago, simply because it is much, much
harder to get to a snowy school under one's own steam than it was.

But shops and businesses don't close at the merest hint of snow.
And their employees surely come from far further afield than
pupils to your average school.
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl

..

"Col" wrote in
:

But shops and businesses don't close at the merest hint of snow.
And their employees surely come from far further afield than
pupils to your average school.

But they don't have a duty of care to 500 children. I think it's reasonable
to be more cautious about children than about adults. Besides, an eight-
year-old can't drive home!

The shops in Worcester, at least, *did* close early on Friday, but this was
mostly because the roads were becoming treacherous and buses were ceasing
to run by about 4pm.

--
Bewdley, Worcs. ~90m asl.

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:21:19 -0600, David Buttery
wrote:

When I first went to school (in 1980) the *vast* majority of pupils
walked, and most of those walked unaccompanied by their parents. My
family had one car, and my dad used it to go to work, so I got a lift
only very rarely (even in 1981-2!). In larger towns, fewer families had
cars at all, and almost everyone got a bus to school.

I'm a lot older than you but I still remember my first day at school
in 1952. At four years old I was considered old enough to walk the
half mile. No families had cars, there was no school bus, nobody was
driven to school and even the kids who lived two miles from school
walked all the way. Only wimps turned up with a parent. The weather
didn't make much difference. If we were snowed in and had to dig our
way out we were late! One day I remember we could walk to school in a
straight line because everything was frozen, including the lake. Some
people just don't believe me when I talk about the winters we had in
those days.

Steve