Richard Slessor wrote:

Actually I think you have had more snow. By accumulated depth I meant
the accumulation of the totals at 9am:


Ah, I see - so quite like Philip Eden's 'Snow Index'.
--
Steve Loft, Glenlivet. 200m ASL
Weather and webcam:
http://www.livet.org.uk/weather

"Steve Loft" wrote in message
news
Richard Slessor wrote:

Actually I think you have had more snow. By accumulated depth I meant
the accumulation of the totals at 9am:

Ah, I see - so quite like Philip Eden's 'Snow Index'.
--
Yes, you're exactly right. The Eden Winter Snow Index (EWSI) for
March so far includes:
189 Glenlivet
145 Dyce
107 Lerwick
96 Wick
89 Eskdalemuir
79 Aviemore
68 Kirkwall
63 Fair Isle
50 Carter Bar
40 Bishopton
36 Broadford and Kinloss ..... und so weiter

Philip

"John Hall" wrote:
Brian Wakem writes:

1674 was colder, was it not?


March, 1674 had a CET of 1.0C to the nearest half degree, the data for
the earliest years of the CET not being sufficient to be any more
precise. So it was probably colder than March, 1785, which was 1.2C, but
it's not certain.
--
A novel comparison may be made with 1947 ... the latest 31-day
period that year with a CET of 1.0°C was Feb 22- Mar 24. I tried
the same exercise with 1962, but the lowest 31-day mean was 1.8°C
for the period ending March 25. Needless to say (well, almost),
none of the more recent cold Marches (not even 1969) could
challenge either of those.

Philip

Philip Eden wrote:

Yes, you're exactly right. The Eden Winter Snow Index (EWSI) for
March so far includes:
189 Glenlivet

That's interesting, my own figure is quite a bit higher (236), but my
garden is quite a bit more exposed in a northerly than the MO station.
--
Steve Loft, Glenlivet. 200m ASL
Weather and webcam:
http://www.livet.org.uk/weather

"Philip Eden" philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom wrote in message
...

"Dave Ludlow" wrote:
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:25:24 -0000, "Philip Eden" wrote:

but now, looking at the geological map, I note that Lee sits on marine
gravels while there are patches of boulder clay above chalk at
Thorney Island and boulder clay above London clay at Bognor.
Fareham looks geologically complex so without knowing exactly
where you live it's not possible to say whether you're more like
Lee or Thorney.

The soil here in West Fareham is light and stony - ideal for
strawberry growing, for which the area was well known. But I do not
know how the geology compares to Lee; I suspect it is very similar and
I would be interested to know if it is. I am located 11 KM due North
of Castle Point, East Cowes; 3.3 KM North East of the mouth of the
Hamble.

Right, Dave, you have the same geology as Lee ... post-glacial marine
gravels
above Tertiary beds of sands and gravels. I misread the maps re Bognor
and Thorney Is which have a superficial cover of brick earth, not
boulder clay. (Boulder clay along the south coast, dear oh dear!)

You can also see roughly where the wx station is at Lee on
Google Earth (high res image shows the MRSC compound very
clearly ... lots of asphalt, not much grass) whereas in Locks Heath
you're still low res.

Philip


Philip, these are interesting comments that you make, but how much
difference can geology play locally. I'm sure that we're all aware of the
effect of sandy soils and maybe clay, but is there a significant effect on
long term temperature?

--
David Mitchell, 70m amsl, Langtoft, East Riding of Yorkshire.

"Philip Eden" philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom wrote in message
...

"Steve Loft" wrote in message
news
Richard Slessor wrote:

Actually I think you have had more snow. By accumulated depth I meant
the accumulation of the totals at 9am:

Ah, I see - so quite like Philip Eden's 'Snow Index'.
--
Yes, you're exactly right. The Eden Winter Snow Index (EWSI) for
March so far includes:
189 Glenlivet
145 Dyce
107 Lerwick
96 Wick
89 Eskdalemuir
79 Aviemore
68 Kirkwall
63 Fair Isle
50 Carter Bar
40 Bishopton
36 Broadford and Kinloss ..... und so weiter

Philip


Ooh! Can I have a place = 46.

--
David Mitchell, 70m amsl, Langtoft, East Riding of Yorkshire.

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 10:41:00 -0000, "Philip Eden"
philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom wrote:

You can also see roughly where the wx station is at Lee on
Google Earth (high res image shows the MRSC compound very
clearly ... lots of asphalt, not much grass) whereas in Locks Heath
you're still low res.

Yes, these are remarkable hires images; I hadn't realised how good
they are for some areas.

You can see the thermometer screen at Solent MRSC, sitting in the
middle of the front garden - the screen is in the exact centre of this
google image he
http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=50.8080...3,0.001808&t=h

especially if you zoom in one level to maximum zoom. You can also see
the shelter this screen receives from wind directions in an arc from
Easterly to North Westerly.

I wonder if shelter from the wind, together with the large amounts of
tarmac in the immediate vicinity, could go some way to explaining the
occasional large excesses (up to 2 degrees C) that I see in their
maximum temperature compared to my own and some other local stations
such as Southampton Airport?

The larger differences tend to occur in fairly light winds and on
mainly sunny afternoons with offshore or calm winds, especially but
not exclusively in the Spring and Summer months. My own screen is
sheltered by the house from the sun in the afternoons. It is also more
exposed to winds from the East to North West arc. and while there is
certainly some suburban-estate tarmac nearby, there is less of it than
at Solent MRSC North of the coast road.

Dave

Mean here 2.0c, (3.2c below average), coldest March since 1962 (1.8c),
however with the Met Office now moving away from the heavy snow
prediction to Spring arriving this weekend that mean will rise.
Guy who does Midlands today weather has being going on for the last week
about how he can't see any end in sight of the cold spell suddenly got
very excited tonight about temperatures of 14c to 16c this weekend!
Maybe it will only end up the coldest since 1996 (3.3c).

Weston Coyney weather station (North Staffordshire) 220 metres asl

"David Mitchell" wrote:
"Philip Eden" philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom wrote:


Right, Dave, you have the same geology as Lee ... post-glacial marine
gravels
above Tertiary beds of sands and gravels. I misread the maps re Bognor
and Thorney Is which have a superficial cover of brick earth, not
boulder clay. (Boulder clay along the south coast, dear oh dear!)

You can also see roughly where the wx station is at Lee on
Google Earth (high res image shows the MRSC compound very
clearly ... lots of asphalt, not much grass) whereas in Locks Heath
you're still low res.

Philip, these are interesting comments that you make, but how much
difference can geology play locally. I'm sure that we're all aware of the
effect of sandy soils and maybe clay, but is there a significant effect on
long term temperature?

Not an enormous amount but we are only talking fractions of a
degree here. The geology (and other environmental factors) are,
of course, there throughout the year, but will have a greater influence
when the wind is light or calm, and skies are clear. I think it's
a reasonable inference that part of the difference between
Solent MRSC and Thorney Island, for instance, is down to geology.
Part, I'm sure, is down to other factors, notably asphalt and shelter.

Philip

"Dave Ludlow" wrote:

I wonder if shelter from the wind, together with the large amounts of
tarmac in the immediate vicinity, could go some way to explaining the
occasional large excesses (up to 2 degrees C) that I see in their
maximum temperature compared to my own and some other local stations
such as Southampton Airport?

I'm sure this is so. The sheltered nature of the site probably means
that, strictly speaking, it doesn't conform to official standards. I recall
an exchange some years ago with someone from MO Climate
explaining that the absence of rainfall measurements was because
the site was too sheltered for a rain-gauge. (Although, oddly,
the Lee observation does include a rainfall reading about half a
dozen times a year ... probably a coding accident.) If it's too
sheltered for a rain gauge, it's too sheltered for a thermometer
screen, (officially, that is).

I've done a quick analysis of the monthly records since 2001 for
Solent MRSC minus Thorney Island:

Mon MnMx MnMin
Jan +0.1 +0.7
Feb +0.1 +0.5
Mar +0.2 +0.8
Apr +0.2 +0.7
May +0.1 +0.7
Jun -0.2 +0.6
Jul -0.4 +0.7
Aug -0.3 +0.6
Sep -0.1 +0.8
Oct +0.2 +0.8
Nov +0.2 +0.8
Dec +0.2 +0.8

Several factors at work here (proximity to open water,
summer sea-breezes, as well as geology, shelter, and
urbanisation). It is interesting to note that the extreme
monthly maxes at Solent during the summer half-year
average over 1.0 degC above Thorney Island, and are
sometimes more than 2.0 degC. Months dominated
by northerly and anticyclonic weather types also show
a bigger positive difference (eg Dec 2001 at +0.6 degC,
May 2004 at +0.4 degC, Jun 2004 at +0.1 degC,
Nov 2005 at +0.7 degC), whereas strongly SW-ly
months show a negative difference even in winter.

Philip