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Old November 18th 14, 03:06 PM posted to sci.geo.meteorology
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Default Martin's Dilemma

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 5:00:43 AM UTC-8, Martin Brown wrote:

However, water dimers have recently been demonstrated to exist
in trace amounts under conditions that are not far off those
in the atmosphere.

It's not clear IMO, that that exact conclusion is both accurate
and comprehensive. Their "measurement" is indirect and, from what
I can tell, dependent on assumptions that are unproven/unprovable.
At best they can say they have detected multimers (not dimers,
dimers being only 2 H2O molecules conjoined by one hydrogen bond)
which is what I anticipated they would detect. For example, did
you notice this: "There is one puzzling aspect of the results,
however: the measured absorption peaks were four times broader
than those predicted by computer modelling. The researchers
speculate that the reason may lie in the simplifying
assumptions . . . ?" How do you interpret that statement? And
they are not the first to detect such. Take a look at this

My conclusion: They have not detected dimers. They have
detected multimers, probably no less than 10 per clump/droplet.
But since they don't know how to distinguish between multimers
they've just assumed dimers--because that seems less

Actually quite an elegant experiment.

LOL. How would you know? No details were provided. The article
is based on the abstract. Don't pretend like you see what was
not presented. (You might as well be talking about the fine
weaving of the emperor's new clothes.)

There are no monomers in our atmosphere. Cold steam is nothing but
an urban myths. And here is the reason why:

Not that this affects the general point that most water vapour is
present as molecular H2O and it is only when the atmosphere is super
saturated and nuclei are about that some of it forms into clouds.

Urban myth. Calling it a "general point" is a dishonest rhetorical
tactic. Pretending you see what has never been detected is
amateurish and petty.

Monomers have never been detected in earth's atmosphere. Prove me wrong.

Before you respond take a deep breath and acknowledge the fact that,
as I just stated, "Monomers have never been detected in earth's

Science isn't about what you believe. It's about what you can
demonstrate empirically.

Do you agree, Martin?

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