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Old April 7th 04, 04:38 PM posted to ne.weather.moderated
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Default Charged Particle in Magnetic field

Could someone here please tell me if there is any scientific relationship etween
"motion of a charged particle in uniform magnetic field (earth's)" and the
dynamics of a hurricane and a tornado?

See:
http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/physics/mag/node3.html

Thank you for your help
Bill



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Old April 8th 04, 03:30 PM posted to ne.weather.moderated
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Default Charged Particle in Magnetic field

In article t,
Bill Orr wrote:
} Could someone here please tell me if there is any scientific relationship etween
} "motion of a charged particle in uniform magnetic field (earth's)" and the
} dynamics of a hurricane and a tornado?
}
} See:
} http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/physics/mag/node3.html

Bill, if you haven't already, you should try posting this query to
sci.geo.meteorology -- it has a wider audience than this local group.

peace,

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Old April 8th 04, 03:54 PM posted to ne.weather.moderated
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Default Charged Particle in Magnetic field



"Charles M. Kozierok" wrote in message
...
In article t,
Bill Orr wrote:
} Could someone here please tell me if there is any scientific relationship

etween
} "motion of a charged particle in uniform magnetic field (earth's)" and the
} dynamics of a hurricane and a tornado?
}
} See:
} http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/physics/mag/node3.html

Bill, if you haven't already, you should try posting this query to
sci.geo.meteorology -- it has a wider audience than this local group.

peace,

-*-


Thanks, Charles, I'll do that.
Bill





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Old April 10th 04, 04:50 PM posted to ne.weather.moderated
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Default Charged Particle in Magnetic field

Bill Orr wrote:

Could someone here please tell me if there is any scientific relationship etween
"motion of a charged particle in uniform magnetic field (earth's)" and the
dynamics of a hurricane and a tornado?

See:
http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/physics/mag/node3.html


The only relationship I see at first consideration is simply that there is
a force which acts perpendicular to the velocity of the charged particle,
causing the circular motion as shown. Similarly, a combination of forces
causes air to circulate around a cyclone (though only theoretically a circular
motion - i.e., if frictionless and a few other minor assumptions such as
constant Coriolis force). In that respect (for geostrophic or gradient flow),
the magnetic field force is analogous with the pressure gradient force.

A better analogy is probably between the charged particle and a satellite
orbit, though for gravity each object affects the other (when a light object
orbits a much heavier one, the effect of the light on the heavy is minimal).
I am not sure if the charged particle actually has an elliptical orbit with
the circular being a special case (I suspect it is), though if a charged
particle were moving too fast past the magnetic field, it obviously would
not attain an orbit as shown. Maybe it would be like a comet though -
moving quickly past (as a comet does the sun), then looping way around
slowly much further away, then returning fast and close.

Regardless, though it is tempting to attempt to draw an analogy among these,
it probably isn't very good because the circulation around a real cyclone
(tornado, hurricane, dust devil, etc.) is not circular but quite a bit more
non-uniform than that and deals with the bulk properties of air as well as
the behavior of individual particles (many of which do not closely move
perpendicular to the cyclone, but are involved in turbulence).


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Old April 11th 04, 02:31 PM posted to ne.weather.moderated
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Default Charged Particle in Magnetic field



"Joseph Bartlo" wrote in message
...
Bill Orr wrote:

Could someone here please tell me if there is any scientific relationship

etween
"motion of a charged particle in uniform magnetic field (earth's)" and the
dynamics of a hurricane and a tornado?

See:
http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/physics/mag/node3.html


The only relationship I see at first consideration is simply that there is
a force which acts perpendicular to the velocity of the charged particle,
causing the circular motion as shown. Similarly, a combination of forces
causes air to circulate around a cyclone (though only theoretically a circular
motion - i.e., if frictionless and a few other minor assumptions such as
constant Coriolis force). In that respect (for geostrophic or gradient flow),
the magnetic field force is analogous with the pressure gradient force.

A better analogy is probably between the charged particle and a satellite
orbit, though for gravity each object affects the other (when a light object
orbits a much heavier one, the effect of the light on the heavy is minimal).
I am not sure if the charged particle actually has an elliptical orbit with
the circular being a special case (I suspect it is), though if a charged
particle were moving too fast past the magnetic field, it obviously would
not attain an orbit as shown. Maybe it would be like a comet though -
moving quickly past (as a comet does the sun), then looping way around
slowly much further away, then returning fast and close.

Regardless, though it is tempting to attempt to draw an analogy among these,
it probably isn't very good because the circulation around a real cyclone
(tornado, hurricane, dust devil, etc.) is not circular but quite a bit more
non-uniform than that and deals with the bulk properties of air as well as
the behavior of individual particles (many of which do not closely move
perpendicular to the cyclone, but are involved in turbulence).


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Bill Orr says:

Thanks for your help, Joseph. There are still many unanswered questions
concerning hurricanes, tornadoes and cloud electrification. But isn't that what
science is all about.

Regards
Bill


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