I am only commenting on this current year to 18 months "higher' ice loss with the E N event...seen against an already exaggerated set of results over recent years.

I remember a certain commemorative sea expedition which (earlier this year) aimed to cross to the N of Siberia into the pacific, only to have to turn back when they came across impassable, unexpected and unknown sea ice. Turns out they went on the basis of model "observed' sea ice...which was very wrong.

So as you see, the recording methodology of sea ice is at best questionable in quality...or is misrepresented / altered before data issue.

Doing fine thanks Will. The place is not what it was when you were here....neither is the internal Newsgroup.

Hope retirement is not too hard work for you.

Are you ready for some snow around New year week/week 2 on your garden?

Hope you get what you want for Christmas.


;-)

On 15/12/16 19:26, Crusader wrote:
So Who am I Paul? Do your worst. Predict that with any accuracy without model data!

Senior Operational Meteorologist is my work title and my company is in Exeter.


I also used to work as a meteorologist for a company that's now in
Exeter. One job I had with them from 1965 to '73 was charting Arctic
Ice. Conditions now are lighter every year now than the lightest I saw
during that time. Looking at ice charts a century ago shows that things
were worse then than in my time in the Ice Unit. It really is scary.

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks. [Retd meteorologist/programmer]
Web-site: http://www.scarlet-jade.com/
There are more fools than knaves in the world, else the knaves would
not have enough to live upon. [Samuel Butler]

"Crusader" wrote in message
...

I remember a certain commemorative sea expedition which (earlier this year)
aimed to cross to the N of Siberia into the pacific, only to have to turn
back when they came across impassable, unexpected and unknown sea ice.

Certainly not going to let that smear masquerade as objective truth. 'Turn
back' makes it sound like the whole expedition was abandoned, which could
scarcely be further from the truth - the polar circumnavigation was all
completed as planned. Full details at:

http://polarocean.co.uk/

To be sure there was a few days holdover/re-routing, somewhere in the Laptev
Sea IIRC, because of unseasonal ice, but other stretches of the voyage such
as through the Bellot Strait were surprisingly ice-free.

Are you sure that you don't work for the Daily Mail - it surely can't be any
sort of job where objectivity matters?

On Thursday, 15 December 2016 19:38:52 UTC, Crusader wrote:
I am only commenting on this current year to 18 months "higher' ice loss with the E N event...seen against an already exaggerated set of results over recent years.

I remember a certain commemorative sea expedition which (earlier this year) aimed to cross to the N of Siberia into the pacific, only to have to turn back when they came across impassable, unexpected and unknown sea ice. Turns out they went on the basis of model "observed' sea ice...which was very wrong.

So as you see, the recording methodology of sea ice is at best questionable in quality...or is misrepresented / altered before data issue.

Crusader,

Your attitude reminds me of that of another employee of that company in Exeter, Dr Vicky Pope. In 2009 she wrote:

“Recent headlines have proclaimed that Arctic summer sea ice has decreased so much in the past few years that it has reached a tipping point and will disappear very quickly. The truth is that there is little evidence to support this. Indeed, the record-breaking losses in the past couple of years could easily be due to natural fluctuations in the weather, with summer sea ice increasing again over the next few years."

There was no evidence that the summer sea ice was increasing, and now we are seeing a dramatic decreases in the autumn ice.

It is clear now that we had passed a tipping point by 2009, with no way back from eventually an ice free Arctic. The question now is have we passed another tipping point where there will be a rapid collapse of the sea ice?

And how will that affect the weather, when we no longer have the Arctic ice to cool us in summer by reflecting the solar radiation away. The Arctic ice cap has been called the Earth's air conditioning unit.

On Thursday, 15 December 2016 20:50:21 UTC, JohnD wrote:
"Crusader" wrote in message
...

I remember a certain commemorative sea expedition which (earlier this year)
aimed to cross to the N of Siberia into the pacific, only to have to turn
back when they came across impassable, unexpected and unknown sea ice.

Certainly not going to let that smear masquerade as objective truth. 'Turn
back' makes it sound like the whole expedition was abandoned, which could
scarcely be further from the truth - the polar circumnavigation was all
completed as planned. Full details at:

http://polarocean.co.uk/

To be sure there was a few days holdover/re-routing, somewhere in the Laptev
Sea IIRC, because of unseasonal ice, but other stretches of the voyage such
as through the Bellot Strait were surprisingly ice-free.

Are you sure that you don't work for the Daily Mail - it surely can't be any
sort of job where objectivity matters?

Not only did they pass through an ice free North West Passage, they were followed by a cruise liner!

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=7239

"Crusader" wrote in message
...
Doing fine thanks Will. The place is not what it was when you were
here....neither is the internal Newsgroup.

Hope retirement is not too hard work for you.

Are you ready for some snow around New year week/week 2 on your garden?

Hope you get what you want for Christmas.


Loving retirement thanks.
Always ready for snow, which always comes.
ATB.

Will
--
" Some sects believe that the world was created 5000 years ago. Another sect
believes that it was created in 1910 "
http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
---------------------------------------------

On 15/12/2016 13:57, Graham P Davis wrote:

So you'd rather believe lies from know-nothings who are funded by the
oil companies?


He'd rather believe whatever conforms to his precious world view,
combined with clinging to the human utopia of freedom without
responsibility, and the sociopathic utopia of I'll do what I like keep
your nose out, I'll dump the consequences on someone else hard luck deal
with it. Any acceptance of anthropogenic climate change and its
consequences flies right against all that.

Alastair wrote:

On Thursday, 15 December 2016 09:48:03 UTC, Norman Lynagh wrote:
We've seen this one before but it's worth another look because it shows so
clearly the reason for the sea ice decline. This version has a slightly
better commentary. Best viewed full screen.

https://twitter.com/NOAAClimate/stat...80990559850497

--
Norman Lynagh
Tideswell, Derbyshire
303m a.s.l.
http://peakdistrictweather.org
@TideswellWeathr

Norman,
Do you mean that the sea ice decline is caused by the thick sea ice adjacent
the Canadian archipelago being drawn into the Beaufort Gyre, and into the
Transpolar current which takes it out of the Arctic via the Fram Strait.
http://www.windows2universe.org/eart..._currents.html

But why is that happening now?

To my eye, the video shows very clearly what has been happening since 1990. The
commentary with the video explains the process very clearly. It's not just
happening 'now'. The video shows that it is a contious process that has been
on-going since at least 1990. It undoubtedly started much earlier than that,
albeit at a much slower rate initially.

It looks to me as though the Arctic could be largely ice-free in summer within
not very many years from now.The multi-year ice is escaping through the Fram
Strait at a much faster rate than it is being generated in the Beaufort Sea.

--
Norman Lynagh
Tideswell, Derbyshire
303m a.s.l.
http://peakdistrictweather.org
@TideswellWeathr

On Fri, 16 Dec 2016 09:05:44 +0000
Adam Lea wrote:

On 15/12/2016 13:57, Graham P Davis wrote:

So you'd rather believe lies from know-nothings who are funded by the
oil companies?


He'd rather believe whatever conforms to his precious world view,
combined with clinging to the human utopia of freedom without
responsibility, and the sociopathic utopia of I'll do what I like keep
your nose out, I'll dump the consequences on someone else hard luck deal
with it. Any acceptance of anthropogenic climate change and its
consequences flies right against all that.

plonk