any hoar frost in Surrey valleys this morning ?
 

Sorry this is a rather lazy question.

I planned to test out my brand new DSLR in the Wey Valley at sunrise this
morning but overslept. Did any hardy souls out there see much hoar frost
worthy of early trip tomorrow ? My back garden station (Burpham, Surrey)
indicated a min of -5.4c last night so no lack of cold air.

Many thanks

Terry

any hoar frost in Surrey valleys this morning ?
 

On 16 Feb, 07:37, "T" wrote:
Sorry this is a rather lazy question.

I planned to test out my brand new DSLR in the Wey Valley at sunrise this
morning but overslept. *Did any hardy souls out there see much hoar frost
worthy of early trip tomorrow ? *My back garden station (Burpham, Surrey)
indicated a min of -5.4c last night so no lack of cold air.


Air is too dry for heavy hoar deposits, probably be the same
on Sunday morning. Have fun setting that alarm for 0500z ;))

Ian (Raunds)

Oil burners.
 

Ian wrote:
On 16 Feb, 07:37, "T" wrote:
Sorry this is a rather lazy question.

I planned to test out my brand new DSLR in the Wey Valley at sunrise this
morning but overslept. �Did any hardy souls out there see much hoar frost
worthy of early trip tomorrow ? �My back garden station (Burpham, Surrey)
indicated a min of -5.4c last night so no lack of cold air.

Air is too dry for heavy hoar deposits, probably be the same
on Sunday morning. Have fun setting that alarm for 05:00z

It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

I tested out my old Ford Transit on some cooking oil about 06:30
morning in a nice crisp frost. It's still frosty now but the engine is
warmed.

I had a 50:50 mix of diesel and cooking oil in it and it started first
time.

I know it is going to be frosty each morning now until the end of this
spell and again next week apart from some cool misty weather in-
between. So I had better run the thing dry and fill with veggie oil
tonight to try it out again tomorrow before it is too late to sort it
on Monday.

I have no idea what I am going to do if it wont start. Take the fuel
lines off the injectors and pump it out probably. Sounds fun in a cold
corner. I'd better get a fuel container and a gallon of the real
thing.

Bloody politicians! Why can't we have a violent overthrow now and
again? (A very violent overthrow.)

Any hoar frost in the Surrey valleys this morning?
 

Reverted subject to T's original.
What was point of changing it Mike?

Ian (Raunds)

any hoar frost in Surrey valleys this morning ?
 

In article ,
T writes:
Sorry this is a rather lazy question.

I planned to test out my brand new DSLR in the Wey Valley at sunrise this
morning but overslept. Did any hardy souls out there see much hoar frost
worthy of early trip tomorrow ? My back garden station (Burpham, Surrey)
indicated a min of -5.4c last night so no lack of cold air.

Not in a valley, but there was hoar frost on the grass in Cranleigh this
morning. It wasn't very heavy, no doubt because the air was so dry.
--
John Hall
"Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin"
attributed to Sir Josiah Stamp,
a former director of the Bank of England

any hoar frost in Surrey valleys this morning ?
 

Actually, I was surprised how iced up the car was this morning. I would give
it a go tomorrow Terry - think there may be a bit more hoar frost.
Min -4.3c at Merrow.
Frost still on the ground in shade (11Z)

Phil

Oil burners.
 

In article 14a70221-85b4-463d-bc43-2e50cf7b54fc@
60g2000hsy.googlegroups.com, Weatherlawyer says...


Ian wrote:
On 16 Feb, 07:37, "T" wrote:
Sorry this is a rather lazy question.

I planned to test out my brand new DSLR in the Wey Valley at sunrise this
morning but overslept. ?Did any hardy souls out there see much hoar frost
worthy of early trip tomorrow ? ?My back garden station (Burpham, Surrey)
indicated a min of -5.4c last night so no lack of cold air.

Air is too dry for heavy hoar deposits, probably be the same
on Sunday morning. Have fun setting that alarm for 05:00z

It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

No. It's between 4-5am.


--
Conor

As a Brit I'd like to thank the Americans for their help in the war
against terror because if they'd not funded the IRA for 30 years, we
wouldn't know how to deal with terrorists.

Oil burners.
 

Conor wrote:
In article 14a70221-85b4-463d-bc43-2e50cf7b54fc@
60g2000hsy.googlegroups.com, Weatherlawyer says...


Ian wrote:
On 16 Feb, 07:37, "T" wrote:
Sorry this is a rather lazy question.

I planned to test out my brand new DSLR in the Wey Valley at
sunrise this morning but overslept. ?Did any hardy souls out there
see much hoar frost worthy of early trip tomorrow ? ?My back
garden station (Burpham, Surrey) indicated a min of -5.4c last
night so no lack of cold air.

Air is too dry for heavy hoar deposits, probably be the same
on Sunday morning. Have fun setting that alarm for 05:00z

It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

No. It's between 4-5am.

At this time of year (with clear skies) it's coldest here in Somerset at
around 8am - the Sun isn't high enough to warm just after dawn, so cooling
continues until it rises high enough to affect the air temperature.

Any hoar frost in the Surrey valleys this morning?
 

Go and take some pictures anyway - and if there's no hoar around, then adobe
(elements or cs) may be able to help. Looks like dawn will be picturesque
whatever.
Peter J

"Ian" wrote in message
...
Reverted subject to T's original.
What was point of changing it Mike?

Ian (Raunds)

Oil burners.
 

"Conor" wrote in message
...
In article 14a70221-85b4-463d-bc43-2e50cf7b54fc@
60g2000hsy.googlegroups.com, Weatherlawyer says...


Ian wrote:
On 16 Feb, 07:37, "T" wrote:
Sorry this is a rather lazy question.

I planned to test out my brand new DSLR in the Wey Valley at sunrise
this
morning but overslept. ?Did any hardy souls out there see much hoar
frost
worthy of early trip tomorrow ? ?My back garden station (Burpham,
Surrey)
indicated a min of -5.4c last night so no lack of cold air.

Air is too dry for heavy hoar deposits, probably be the same
on Sunday morning. Have fun setting that alarm for 05:00z

It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

No. It's between 4-5am.


Being a dirty smoker who's worked nights for the last 8 months or so, I can
confirm what Conor says. It's always bloody cold whatever season between
4-5am when I go out for a cig :-)

Mike P

Any hoar frost in the Surrey valleys this morning?
 

On Feb 16, 9:44 am, Ian wrote:

Reverted subject to T's original.
What was point of changing it Mike?

Because it was still on the subject of the weather and yet off the
thread topic.

Also I cross posted it to a car group as there will be a lot of frost
around until the end of the month and for all I know from looking at
the phases, until the third week in March:
http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclips...se2001gmt.html

Who knows what use the info might provide there? It could be useful.
I'd like to know if I had to get up an half hour earlier to deal with
a frozen windscreen or worse. If I was burning old chip fat I'd be
especially interested.

Oil burners.
 

On Feb 16, 11:14 am, Conor wrote:
In article 14a70221-85b4-463d-bc43-2e50cf7b54fc@
60g2000hsy.googlegroups.com, Weatherlawyer says...



Ian wrote:
On 16 Feb, 07:37, "T" wrote:
Sorry this is a rather lazy question.

I planned to test out my brand new DSLR in the Wey Valley at sunrise this
morning but overslept. ?Did any hardy souls out there see much hoar frost
worthy of early trip tomorrow ? ?My back garden station (Burpham, Surrey)
indicated a min of -5.4c last night so no lack of cold air.

Air is too dry for heavy hoar deposits, probably be the same
on Sunday morning. Have fun setting that alarm for 05:00z

It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

No. It's between 4-5am.

There must be a reason why it feels colder at dawn then. Would it be
regionally specific, I wonder?

As the frost forms around 4 to 5 am, the latent heat is swept away
according to the laws of physics. On a calm morning it will get
momentarily warmer and just at about the time most people become aware
of it, the temperature drops back down to the pre latent heat
temperature?

Whatever the reason, there has to be reason.

As a Brit I'd like to thank the Americans for their help in the war
against terror because if they'd not funded the IRA for 30 years, we
wouldn't know how to deal with terrorists.

They only stopped funding terrorism in Britain because Tory BLiar
promised to terrorise Iraq.

In that TV show that took the lid off the causes of the war about a
year ago, he looked like he'd just been freshly buggered. Must have
been when the impact of what he'd agreed to behind our backs hit home.

Oil burners.
 

On Feb 16, 11:14*am, Conor wrote:
In article 14a70221-85b4-463d-bc43-2e50cf7b54fc@


It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

No. It's between 4-5am.

--
Conor

Sorry, this just isn't true. It is coldest soon after sunrise
and I have 24 year's thermograph traces to prove it. There is no
reason why the temperature should rise before sunrise in the absence
of any change of wind or cloud.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

Oil burners.
 

In article 0a3f3efd-bc21-4133-80b5-38324838c4f6
@k2g2000hse.googlegroups.com, Tudor Hughes says...
On Feb 16, 11:14*am, Conor wrote:
In article 14a70221-85b4-463d-bc43-2e50cf7b54fc@


It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

No. It's between 4-5am.

--
Conor

Sorry, this just isn't true. It is coldest soon after sunrise
and I have 24 year's thermograph traces to prove it. There is no
reason why the temperature should rise before sunrise in the absence
of any change of wind or cloud.

Yebbut that doesn't take into account windchill.

I've spent years being at work at that time.


--
Conor

As a Brit I'd like to thank the Americans for their help in the war
against terror because if they'd not funded the IRA for 30 years, we
wouldn't know how to deal with terrorists.

Oil burners.
 

On Feb 16, 2:50 pm, Tudor Hughes wrote:
On Feb 16, 11:14 am, Conor wrote:

In article 14a70221-85b4-463d-bc43-2e50cf7b54fc@

It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

No. It's between 4-5am.

Sorry, this just isn't true. It is coldest soon after sunrise
and I have 24 year's thermograph traces to prove it. There is no
reason why the temperature should rise before sunrise in the absence
of any change of wind or cloud.

I've always thought that on occasions such as this spell and the last
one, calm, sunny, frosty mornings it gets intensely cold at dawn. But
so many people who, as far as I know, have years of data have
countered that statement in times past, I just went with it.

Without agreeing.

Check your thermograph against the list of lunar dates provided and I
am almost certain you'll be pleasantly surprised. Unless you are
Richard Dixon.

Or Conor?

Oil burners.
 

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:50:39 -0800 (PST), Tudor Hughes
wrote:

On Feb 16, 11:14*am, Conor wrote:
In article 14a70221-85b4-463d-bc43-2e50cf7b54fc@


It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

No. It's between 4-5am.

--
Conor

Sorry, this just isn't true. It is coldest soon after sunrise
and I have 24 year's thermograph traces to prove it. There is no
reason why the temperature should rise before sunrise in the absence
of any change of wind or cloud.


Of course there is - the central heaing comes on at 7 am!

--

Ian D

Oil burners.
 

On Feb 16, 8:02 pm, Ian Dalziel wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:50:39 -0800 (PST), Tudor Hughes



wrote:
On Feb 16, 11:14 am, Conor wrote:
In article 14a70221-85b4-463d-bc43-2e50cf7b54fc@

It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

No. It's between 4-5am.

--
Conor

Sorry, this just isn't true. It is coldest soon after sunrise
and I have 24 year's thermograph traces to prove it. There is no
reason why the temperature should rise before sunrise in the absence
of any change of wind or cloud.

Of course there is - the central heaing comes on at 7 am!

Ford Transits don't have central heating, fool.

Oil burners.
 

On Feb 17, 12:02 am, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Feb 16, 8:02 pm, Ian Dalziel wrote:

Of course there is - the central heaing comes on at 7 am!

Ford Transits don't have central heating, fool.

I wish they did though. No sooner do I get the ice shifted off the
outside than the inside clouds over and needs scraping.

Buggrit millenium hand and shrimp!

Started first time though.

Oil burners.
 

Weatherlawyer wrote:

On Feb 16, 8:02 pm, Ian Dalziel wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:50:39 -0800 (PST), Tudor Hughes



wrote:
On Feb 16, 11:14 am, Conor wrote:
In article 14a70221-85b4-463d-bc43-2e50cf7b54fc@

It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

No. It's between 4-5am.

--
Conor

Sorry, this just isn't true. It is coldest soon after sunrise
and I have 24 year's thermograph traces to prove it. There is no
reason why the temperature should rise before sunrise in the absence
of any change of wind or cloud.

Of course there is - the central heaing comes on at 7 am!

Ford Transits don't have central heating, fool.

Bzzt wrong. Som Ford Transits have central heating.

http://www.usedcarmart.co.uk/1997_fo..._swb-o33115-en
html

Oil burners.
 

In article 9af7e238-4379-4d49-817c-802ca6cfbbf9@
72g2000hsu.googlegroups.com, says...
Buggrit millenium hand and shrimp!

I know what you read.
--
Carl Robson
Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com

any hoar frost in Surrey valleys this morning ?
 

Thanks for the advice Phil. Freezing fog and -6c at 7:30am but worth the
trip, fog cleared rapidly around 8:30. A few pics uploaded here :.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2388159...7603924501746/

Cheers

T


"Phil Layton" wrote in message
...
Actually, I was surprised how iced up the car was this morning. I would
give it a go tomorrow Terry - think there may be a bit more hoar frost.
Min -4.3c at Merrow.
Frost still on the ground in shade (11Z)

Phil

any hoar frost in Surrey valleys this morning ?
 

Beautiful photos - looks like the new camera knows a thing or two ;-)

"T" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the advice Phil. Freezing fog and -6c at 7:30am but worth the
trip, fog cleared rapidly around 8:30. A few pics uploaded here :.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2388159...7603924501746/

Cheers

T


"Phil Layton" wrote in message
...
Actually, I was surprised how iced up the car was this morning. I would
give it a go tomorrow Terry - think there may be a bit more hoar frost.
Min -4.3c at Merrow.
Frost still on the ground in shade (11Z)

Phil

any hoar frost in Surrey valleys this morning ?
 

"T" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the advice Phil. Freezing fog and -6c at 7:30am but worth the
trip, fog cleared rapidly around 8:30. A few pics uploaded here :.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2388159...7603924501746/

Cheers



Lovely photos. Definately worth getting up for. I cycled down from the New
Inn at Send to the town centre a couple of weeks ago and it looked like
Summer! Send Church always looks great in the scenery.
-6c also here, not quite beating the -6.2 on Dec 20th.

Phil

Oil burners.
 

Elder wrote:
In article 9af7e238-4379-4d49-817c-802ca6cfbbf9@
72g2000hsu.googlegroups.com, says...
Buggrit millenium hand and shrimp!

I know what you read.

Unseen....

Oil burners.
 

On Feb 17, 1:37 pm, (Steve Firth) wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Feb 16, 8:02 pm, Ian Dalziel wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:50:39 -0800 (PST), Tudor Hughes

wrote:
On Feb 16, 11:14 am, Conor wrote:
In article 14a70221-85b4-463d-bc43-2e50cf7b54fc@

It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

No. It's between 4-5am.

--
Conor

Sorry, this just isn't true. It is coldest soon after sunrise
and I have 24 year's thermograph traces to prove it. There is no
reason why the temperature should rise before sunrise in the absence
of any change of wind or cloud.

Of course there is - the central heaing comes on at 7 am!

Ford Transits don't have central heating, fool.

Bzzt wrong. Som Ford Transits have central heating.

http://www.usedcarmart.co.uk/1997_fo..._swb-o33115-en
html

Note to self:

DON'T BUGGER ABOUT WITH VEGETABLE OIL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LONGEST,
COLDEST SNAP IN RECENT MEMORY!

Oil burners.
 

On Feb 20, 1:49 am, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Feb 17, 1:37 pm, (Steve Firth) wrote:



Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Feb 16, 8:02 pm, Ian Dalziel wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 06:50:39 -0800 (PST), Tudor Hughes

wrote:
On Feb 16, 11:14 am, Conor wrote:
In article 14a70221-85b4-463d-bc43-2e50cf7b54fc@

It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?

No. It's between 4-5am.

--
Conor

Sorry, this just isn't true. It is coldest soon after sunrise
and I have 24 year's thermograph traces to prove it. There is no
reason why the temperature should rise before sunrise in the absence
of any change of wind or cloud.

Of course there is - the central heaing comes on at 7 am!

Ford Transits don't have central heating, fool.

Bzzt wrong. Som Ford Transits have central heating.

http://www.usedcarmart.co.uk/1997_fo..._swb-o33115-en
html

Note to self:

DON'T BUGGER ABOUT WITH VEGETABLE OIL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LONGEST,
COLDEST SNAP IN RECENT MEMORY!

Some people were designed by god to find things out the hard way.

Oil burners.
 

Conor wrote:
It's usually chilliest just at dawn, or just after is it not?
No. It's between 4-5am.
Sorry, this just isn't true. It is coldest soon after sunrise
and I have 24 year's thermograph traces to prove it. There is no
reason why the temperature should rise before sunrise in the absence
of any change of wind or cloud.

Yebbut that doesn't take into account windchill.

I've spent years being at work at that time.

Windchill is ********. By which I mean that it doesn't actually convey
any useful information;
If it is +1C and there is a 'windchill' of 5 degrees, there wont be a
frost, as if it were -4C. If you wear windproof clothing then it feels
exactly the same as +1C. Obviously, air movement and humidity do have
an effect on your perception of temperature, but then so do your own
movement (standing still vs walking/running/cycling), clothing, skin
moisture levels, etc. - how much colder it feels than dry still air is
entirely subjective.

Sorry, personal bete noire. I'll shut up now...

Wind chill.
 

On Feb 22, 12:54 pm, Albert T Cone wrote:

Windchill is ********. By which I mean that it doesn't actually convey
any useful information;
If it is +1C and there is a 'windchill' of 5 degrees, there wont be a
frost, as if it were -4C. If you wear windproof clothing then it feels
exactly the same as +1C. Obviously, air movement and humidity do have
an effect on your perception of temperature, but then so do your own
movement (standing still vs walking/running/cycling), clothing, skin
moisture levels, etc. - how much colder it feels than dry still air is
entirely subjective.

Sorry, personal bete noire. I'll shut up now...

By the same token surface temperatures of Arctic ice in storms only
get that low because of being ice in the Arctic? I would have thought
that the wind effect did the chilling.

The fact that the temperature just a few feet lower down remains
within 2 degrees of 0 Centigrade despite frequent sustained drops to
-37 above?

Kind of reminds me how temperatures in the lower atmosphere don't
change much though powerful storms can gather vast quantities of water
and vaporise it.

My personal "black fire". No apologies tended.

Wind chill.
 

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
...
On Feb 22, 12:54 pm, Albert T Cone wrote:

Windchill is ********. By which I mean that it doesn't actually convey
any useful information;
If it is +1C and there is a 'windchill' of 5 degrees, there wont be a
frost, as if it were -4C. If you wear windproof clothing then it feels
exactly the same as +1C. Obviously, air movement and humidity do have
an effect on your perception of temperature, but then so do your own
movement (standing still vs walking/running/cycling), clothing, skin
moisture levels, etc. - how much colder it feels than dry still air is
entirely subjective.

Sorry, personal bete noire. I'll shut up now...

By the same token surface temperatures of Arctic ice in storms only
get that low because of being ice in the Arctic? I would have thought
that the wind effect did the chilling.

That's nowt to do with wind chill, or indeed the wind. The temperature is
that of the air. Air at a certain temperature can't cool below that
temperature - simple thermodynamics. The wind can make the cooling effect if
present work faster, but it won't change the equilibrium temperature.

The fact that the temperature just a few feet lower down remains
within 2 degrees of 0 Centigrade despite frequent sustained drops to
-37 above?

Insulation.

"Wind chill" refers to the cooling of warm bodies, ie people - stick
somebody in still air at 0 deg C and they'll require X amount of energy to
keep warm. Make the air moving and they'll require more, ie they'll require
Y amount of energy. If the air is still, they'd expend Y amount of energy at
several degrees below - the wind chill is the difference between the actual
air temperature and that lower temperature.

clive