sci.geo.meteorology (Meteorology) (sci.geo.meteorology) For the discussion of meteorology and related topics.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old September 10th 05, 09:56 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.geo.meteorology,soc.history
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by Weather-Banter: May 2005
Posts: 92
Default Hurricane Ophelia has similar pattern to Katrina

Gee, I wonder what happened to the letters L, M, N that we are now at
Ophelia. I guess it goes not by hurricane count but by tropical storm
count.

Anyway, I get this sense that there is some similarity between Ophelia
and Katrina, for if my memory serves me, Katrina rammed into southern
Florida around Ft. Lauderdale and then scooted back out to the ocean
and then trekked around the cape of Florida and went northward to slam
into New Orleans and Biloxi regions.

So Ophelia is poised to slam into Florida but will it wander southward
and into the Gulf region that Katrina ventured?

I guess my basic question is that can we have 2 hurricanes spaced so
close together in time and follow similar trekking patterns? I would
guess it to be rare because a hurricane takes so much heat out of the
water that those waters need more time than a few weeks to be capable
of generating a second hurricane similar to the first.

And another question: is there a regular route for hurricanes and the
hitting of the east coast of Florida and then rambling into the Gulf
waters whether that is a regular and frequent pattern? Again I would
have guessed it is rare because one hurricane drains the energy out of
the water where it was formed that a second similar hurricane would be
rare since it takes time for that same waters to heat up.

And a third question. It seems to me of the little following of
tornadoes that they somehow meander near rivers more than they like
going over land. Rivers seem to be a magnet for tornadoes. And I notice
in Katrina that it seemed to be magnet attracted to the Mississippi
River. So I wonder if hurricanes seemed to be pulled toward continents
where rivers are. And did the river in Ft. Lauderdale act as some
magnet in pulling Katrina towards Ft. Lauderdale.

I would guess that since Global WArming is increasing hurricane
frequency that the patterns in old times of the 20th century will be
different from the patterns of the 21st century with the acceleration
of Global Warming.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies


  #2   Report Post  
Old September 10th 05, 04:43 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.geo.meteorology,soc.history
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by Weather-Banter: May 2005
Posts: 92
Default heading for another river-- Savannah River Hurricane Ophelia has similar pattern to Katrina

What a fun mystery. It appears that hurricanes are attracted like a
magnet to rivers of continents. Katrina headed for the Mississippi
River. Ophelia seems to be heading for the Savannah River. Is there a
physics principle in play here? Something of "shortest path" or "least
path of resistance".

For why did Katrina trace out a path that avoided Florida land when it
slammed into Ft. Lauderdale and instead scooted out to sea to
circumnavigate around the tip of Florida and head up towards the
Mississippi River. As if Katrina sensed the Florida land mass and
sensed that it return back out to sea to avoid the Florida land mass.
Obviously Hurricanes have no brains or memory system, but perhaps there
is some physics involved of saying that they follow the path of least
resistance and that would be follow the path of the most available big
river water when slamming into landmass. Perhaps there is another form
of attraction to river water in that it is different from ocean salt
water.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

  #4   Report Post  
Old September 10th 05, 05:21 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.geo.meteorology,soc.history
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by Weather-Banter: Jul 2003
Posts: 178
Default heading for another river-- Savannah River Hurricane Ophelia has similar pattern to Katrina

In article .com,
says...
What a fun mystery. It appears that hurricanes are attracted like a
magnet to rivers of continents. Katrina headed for the Mississippi
River. Ophelia seems to be heading for the Savannah River. Is there a
physics principle in play here? Something of "shortest path" or "least
path of resistance".

For why did Katrina trace out a path that avoided Florida land when it
slammed into Ft. Lauderdale and instead scooted out to sea to
circumnavigate around the tip of Florida and head up towards the
Mississippi River. As if Katrina sensed the Florida land mass and
sensed that it return back out to sea to avoid the Florida land mass.


It didn't do that. It moved southwestward over the Florida land mass
and exited the Florida peninsula over mainland Monroe County about 3 AM
on Friday 26 August.

Obviously Hurricanes have no brains or memory system, but perhaps there
is some physics involved of saying that they follow the path of least
resistance and that would be follow the path of the most available big
river water when slamming into landmass. Perhaps there is another form
of attraction to river water in that it is different from ocean salt
water.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies



--
Harold Brooks
hebrooks87 hotmail.com
  #5   Report Post  
Old September 10th 05, 06:53 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.geo.meteorology,soc.history
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by Weather-Banter: Sep 2005
Posts: 7
Default Hurricane Ophelia has similar pattern to Katrina


wrote in message
oups.com...
Gee, I wonder what happened to the letters L, M, N that we are now at
Ophelia. I guess it goes not by hurricane count but by tropical storm
count.


Correct. And many of these tropical storms and hurricanes simply head out
over the open water of the North Atlantic and never really make landfall.


Anyway, I get this sense that there is some similarity between Ophelia
and Katrina, for if my memory serves me, Katrina rammed into southern
Florida around Ft. Lauderdale and then scooted back out to the ocean
and then trekked around the cape of Florida and went northward to slam
into New Orleans and Biloxi regions.

So Ophelia is poised to slam into Florida but will it wander southward
and into the Gulf region that Katrina ventured?

I guess my basic question is that can we have 2 hurricanes spaced so
close together in time and follow similar trekking patterns? I would
guess it to be rare because a hurricane takes so much heat out of the
water that those waters need more time than a few weeks to be capable
of generating a second hurricane similar to the first.


The track of Ophelia is actually quite different from that of Katrina. As
for the heat in the ocean waters, you must remember that these storms
usually form just west of the African continent. That gives them a very
large section of ocean to be able to travel over and draw heat and power
from. Also, the ocean waters re-heat quite readily in the glare of tropical
sunlight.


And another question: is there a regular route for hurricanes and the
hitting of the east coast of Florida and then rambling into the Gulf
waters whether that is a regular and frequent pattern? Again I would
have guessed it is rare because one hurricane drains the energy out of
the water where it was formed that a second similar hurricane would be
rare since it takes time for that same waters to heat up.

And a third question. It seems to me of the little following of
tornadoes that they somehow meander near rivers more than they like
going over land. Rivers seem to be a magnet for tornadoes. And I notice
in Katrina that it seemed to be magnet attracted to the Mississippi
River. So I wonder if hurricanes seemed to be pulled toward continents
where rivers are. And did the river in Ft. Lauderdale act as some
magnet in pulling Katrina towards Ft. Lauderdale.


What determines the track of tropical storms, hurricanes and any number of
other weather disturbances, are the prevailing weather patterns in the areas
that they travel into. For example; a high pressure area will block the
storm from heading in that direction, whereas low pressure provides less
resistance and will allow the storm to push through into that region. There
are also prevailing winds to consider and a number of other atmospheric
conditions that contribute to the storm path.

While it would be wrong to say that geological features affect the track
that a storm follows; indirectly they contribute in as much as they affect
the prevailing weather patterns.

James


I would guess that since Global WArming is increasing hurricane
frequency that the patterns in old times of the 20th century will be
different from the patterns of the 21st century with the acceleration
of Global Warming.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies





  #6   Report Post  
Old September 11th 05, 07:44 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.geo.meteorology,soc.history
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by Weather-Banter: May 2005
Posts: 92
Default Hurricane Ophelia has similar pattern to Katrina

James Toupin wrote:
What determines the track of tropical storms, hurricanes and any number
of
other weather disturbances, are the prevailing weather patterns in the
areas
that they travel into. For example; a high pressure area will block the
storm from heading in that direction, whereas low pressure provides
less
resistance and will allow the storm to push through into that region.
There
are also prevailing winds to consider and a number of other atmospheric
conditions that contribute to the storm path.

While it would be wrong to say that geological features affect the
track
that a storm follows; indirectly they contribute in as much as they
affect
the prevailing weather patterns.

James

Tell me, have you ever seen a tornado form where there is no water, no
rain. A dry tornado. And whereever hurricanes occur they spawn off
tornadoes.

I have been weakly keeping some track of where tornadoes seem to trek
and many seem to follow major rivers. The frequency of tornadoes has a
river nearby.

So there is some correlation between rivers to tornadoes and rivers to
hurricanes. What the correlation is, I am not sure at this moment. It
maybe a weak correlation or maybe a strong one.

One thing I do notice about river valleys is that they are very much
cooler then surrounding landmass. So maybe a River system creates a
micro high or low pressure region that draws like a magnet a hurricane
or tornado into the River valley. Then of course there is the
correlation that water is the prime ingredient of forming hurricanes
and thus they would follow where the water is and slam into a continent
most frequently where a River system is.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

  #7   Report Post  
Old September 11th 05, 09:42 AM posted to sci.physics,sci.geo.meteorology,soc.history
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by Weather-Banter: Sep 2005
Posts: 7
Default Hurricane Ophelia has similar pattern to Katrina


wrote in message
oups.com...
James Toupin wrote:
What determines the track of tropical storms, hurricanes and any number
of
other weather disturbances, are the prevailing weather patterns in the
areas
that they travel into. For example; a high pressure area will block the
storm from heading in that direction, whereas low pressure provides
less
resistance and will allow the storm to push through into that region.
There
are also prevailing winds to consider and a number of other atmospheric
conditions that contribute to the storm path.

While it would be wrong to say that geological features affect the
track
that a storm follows; indirectly they contribute in as much as they
affect
the prevailing weather patterns.

James

Tell me, have you ever seen a tornado form where there is no water, no
rain. A dry tornado. And whereever hurricanes occur they spawn off
tornadoes.


Of course I have never seen a tornado with no rain, they are spawned by
cells within thunder storms.


I have been weakly keeping some track of where tornadoes seem to trek
and many seem to follow major rivers. The frequency of tornadoes has a
river nearby.

So there is some correlation between rivers to tornadoes and rivers to
hurricanes. What the correlation is, I am not sure at this moment. It
maybe a weak correlation or maybe a strong one.


Actually, the correlation is not between tornados and rivers, but rather
between tornados and topography. Tornados, like any weather system, do
indeed follow the path of least resistance. The circulation of tornados is
interrupted and dispersed when it comes into contact with large natural or
artificial structures, which is why few hurricanes cause destruction in the
center of large metropolitan areas. The wind patterns are disturbed and the
circulation dispersed by the larger structures.

If a tornado happened to pass into a river valley, it would then follow the
course of the river or be dispersed hitting the far side of the valley.

I had this all explained to me in great detail by a meteorologist after we
had experienced a tornado on the outskirts of our city when making a joke,
in rather poor taste, about tornados always striking mobile home parks. He
informed me that the reason was that the mobile home parks tend to be
located on the outskirts of major cities, hence their propensity to be in
the path of a tornado.


One thing I do notice about river valleys is that they are very much
cooler then surrounding landmass. So maybe a River system creates a
micro high or low pressure region that draws like a magnet a hurricane
or tornado into the River valley. Then of course there is the
correlation that water is the prime ingredient of forming hurricanes
and thus they would follow where the water is and slam into a continent
most frequently where a River system is.


The idea that there may be a localized low pressure area over the cooler
waters of a river delta is an interesting one. A low pressure area would
indeed provide a path of least resistance. I would wonder if any study has
been done in this area...

James


Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies



  #8   Report Post  
Old September 11th 05, 12:23 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.geo.meteorology,soc.history
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by Weather-Banter: Jul 2003
Posts: 178
Default Hurricane Ophelia has similar pattern to Katrina

In article .com,
says...
James Toupin wrote:
What determines the track of tropical storms, hurricanes and any number
of
other weather disturbances, are the prevailing weather patterns in the
areas
that they travel into. For example; a high pressure area will block the
storm from heading in that direction, whereas low pressure provides
less
resistance and will allow the storm to push through into that region.
There
are also prevailing winds to consider and a number of other atmospheric
conditions that contribute to the storm path.

While it would be wrong to say that geological features affect the
track
that a storm follows; indirectly they contribute in as much as they
affect
the prevailing weather patterns.

James

Tell me, have you ever seen a tornado form where there is no water, no
rain. A dry tornado. And whereever hurricanes occur they spawn off
tornadoes.


No, they don't. Many hurricanes don't have any tornadoes associated
with them.

I have been weakly keeping some track of where tornadoes seem to trek
and many seem to follow major rivers. The frequency of tornadoes has a
river nearby.


Utter nonsense. Tornadoes don't follow rivers. The only reason that
you might see "the frequency of tornadoes has a river nearby" is because
there are lots of rivers on the planet.


So there is some correlation between rivers to tornadoes and rivers to
hurricanes. What the correlation is, I am not sure at this moment. It
maybe a weak correlation or maybe a strong one.


Exceedingly weak. In the case of Katrina in Louisiana and Mississippi,
for example, it tracked perpendicular to the really big river (the
Mississippi) and ended up making a second landfall at Bay St. Louis.

Harold

--
Harold Brooks
hebrooks87 hotmail.com
  #9   Report Post  
Old September 11th 05, 12:30 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.geo.meteorology,soc.history
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by Weather-Banter: Jul 2003
Posts: 178
Default Hurricane Ophelia has similar pattern to Katrina

In article [email protected], says...

wrote in message
oups.com...
James Toupin wrote:
What determines the track of tropical storms, hurricanes and any number
of
other weather disturbances, are the prevailing weather patterns in the
areas
that they travel into. For example; a high pressure area will block the
storm from heading in that direction, whereas low pressure provides
less
resistance and will allow the storm to push through into that region.
There
are also prevailing winds to consider and a number of other atmospheric
conditions that contribute to the storm path.

While it would be wrong to say that geological features affect the
track
that a storm follows; indirectly they contribute in as much as they
affect
the prevailing weather patterns.

James

Tell me, have you ever seen a tornado form where there is no water, no
rain. A dry tornado. And whereever hurricanes occur they spawn off
tornadoes.


Of course I have never seen a tornado with no rain, they are spawned by
cells within thunder storms.


I have been weakly keeping some track of where tornadoes seem to trek
and many seem to follow major rivers. The frequency of tornadoes has a
river nearby.

So there is some correlation between rivers to tornadoes and rivers to
hurricanes. What the correlation is, I am not sure at this moment. It
maybe a weak correlation or maybe a strong one.


Actually, the correlation is not between tornados and rivers, but rather
between tornados and topography. Tornados, like any weather system, do
indeed follow the path of least resistance. The circulation of tornados is
interrupted and dispersed when it comes into contact with large natural or
artificial structures, which is why few hurricanes cause destruction in the
center of large metropolitan areas. The wind patterns are disturbed and the
circulation dispersed by the larger structures.


It's not true that tornadoes avoid cities.


If a tornado happened to pass into a river valley, it would then follow the
course of the river or be dispersed hitting the far side of the valley.


Wrong. The classic example is the tornado from the 1974 outbreak that
crossed the Ohio River (Brandenburg tornado, IIRC), which is a
significant river valley. The Oklahoma City 1999 tornado crossed the
Canadian River, which is not so significant.


I had this all explained to me in great detail by a meteorologist after we
had experienced a tornado on the outskirts of our city when making a joke,
in rather poor taste, about tornados always striking mobile home parks. He
informed me that the reason was that the mobile home parks tend to be
located on the outskirts of major cities, hence their propensity to be in
the path of a tornado.


To be polite, you were misinformed. The reason that downtown areas
aren't hit very often is that they aren't very big. If you took another
set of areas the same size as downtowns, you'd find they aren't hit very
often. In recent years (10), downtown Nashville, Fort Worth, and Miami
have all been hit.
Harold
--
Harold Brooks
hebrooks87 hotmail.com
  #10   Report Post  
Old September 11th 05, 06:04 PM posted to sci.physics,sci.geo.meteorology,soc.history
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by Weather-Banter: May 2005
Posts: 92
Default Hurricane Ophelia has similar pattern to Katrina


Harold Brooks wrote:
(snipped)

Harold, you seem to have a good command of the facts, and I suppose you
lived through the Mt. St. Helens eruption and also the Pinatuba,
Philippine eruption. I forget the precise year of St. Helens, ??1980??
and the precise year of Pinatuba ??1993??.

So I wonder, Harold, can you supply us with the facts of St. Helens and
Pinatuba as to the amount of ash in atmosphere, the latitude
concentration of that ash and whether the summers of those volcanoes
had any hurricanes and what magnitude of hurricanes. If memory serves
me the St. Helens ash was washed out of the atmosphere after about 8
months.

Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies



Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Katrina Katrina Katrina Katrina E2out[_2_] alt.talk.weather (General Weather Talk) 2 August 29th 07 09:30 PM
We could have now eliminated Hurricane Katrina & Ophelia with Aluminium Sequin in orbit, if we had prepared [email protected] sci.geo.meteorology (Meteorology) 4 September 21st 05 07:06 PM
Hurricane Ophelia - live TV from Wilmington NC Paul C uk.sci.weather (UK Weather) 0 September 14th 05 09:22 PM
HURRICANE OPHELIA - My Projected Path JC alt.talk.weather (General Weather Talk) 3 September 13th 05 10:15 PM
Wetlands destruction highly relevant to Katrina damage (was Hurricane Katrina Comments and Questions) Enough Already sci.geo.meteorology (Meteorology) 2 August 31st 05 12:01 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:40 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2017 Weather Banter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Weather"

 

Copyright © 2017